Talk:Zydeco

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Untitled
Other sources (who?) have linked the term "zydeco" to an African language (which?) in which it means a particular sort of dance or rhythm. The derivation from "les haricots" may have been an in-joke. In the context of the more dominant Cajun culture, it makes a joking link to a well-known Cajun song or poetic phrase. Humour is notoriously difficult to analyse but, in this case, there seems to be a superficial self-deprecation while interpolating a word which has got a secret historic meaning for the minority group. The self-deprication comes in using a "mis-heard" term from the dominant language - implying a foolish ignorance.

Think about it - the word "zydeco" does not really sound like "les haricots" does it?
 * It does in a cajun accent. ;-) Terrapin 20:07, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Zydeco certainly sounds like les haricot. The pronunciation is roughly "layz'areecoe".  Now the r in French is a guttural rolled sound and an English speaker is likely to try it with a palatal rolled r (like a Scot), which, when shortened, sounds somewhat like a "rd" (tongue slaps against the palate).  Hence the result is "zardeecoe" with very little "r" when said quickly, leading to "zadeecoe".  Michael Daly 22:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The derivation sounds plausible to me, too, but you missed a point: Cajun French uses an alveolar trill, tap or flap in the first place (instead of a uvular rhotic, see ), which between vowels is easily heard as "d" by a speaker of American English.
 * There is a problem, though: The German Wikipedia claims that the term "Zodico" was used for the style of music already before 1965, and a quick Google search brought up the title of a record from 1955 which uses this term. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 16:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Is there any reason to keep the claim that the word has some secret meaning. Sounds like some sort of whacko racist conspiracy theory. If no one can find a reference for this bizarre claim I reckon it should be removed. Kuratowski's Ghost 02:47, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * "Les Haricots Sont Pas Sale"

And this is why you should never leave off the diacritics. In this form it means "The beans are not dirty." I should hope not! Salé means salty or salted. Sale means dirty. Also, salé should be salés because the noun it describes (haricots) is plural. Oh, and haricot is just bean. Haricots verts is green beans. ShadowDragon 20:09, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

ShadowDragon, Dans les communités francophones en la Louisiane, on dit parfois seulement "haricots" pour les "haricots verts." Arthurian Legend 18:57, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

"across the U.S., in Europe, and Scandinavia." Scandinavia is, and always has been, a part of Europe.

Cleanup required
This article can be better organized, grammatically improved and should cite more source. Aaron charles (talk) 15:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed; I have reduced the excessive Lead section, created new sections/ headings and have started on the bare URL issue.--Soulparadox 07:41, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

In what language?
For people who are not acquainted with zydeco there must be some more details in this article...for example, in what language is written and sung most of zydeco music, in Louisiana French language or French Creole language? The same applies to cajun music. The article should have more details about the differences between cajun music, the people who play it and zydeco and its musicians. Amedee Ardoin seems to be seminal for both styles, this may be a little bit confusing for outsiders. Emerson

Too much history, too little technical info
This article really has nothing that actually identifies zydeco... all I'm seeing is a lot of historical info and a rundown of the instruments. Can something be added that explains what zydeco actually is and what distinguishes it from other folk music? -Rolypolyman (talk) 04:20, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually because of the my comment and the preceding one I am going to put a cleanup flag in the article asking for more info. -Rolypolyman (talk) 04:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree but am flying to England this aft, so won't have time to help. Here are some useful sources:

''Zydeco, the dance music of rural African-Americans of south Louisiana, is closely related to Cajun music, but with a slightly harder, rock-influenced edge. The best place to find the music is in one of the roadside dance halls where it is played on the weekends. Modern zydeco and Cajun music are both accordion-based, but zydeco tends to be faster and incorporate heavy percussion and electric instruments; electric guitars and washboards (called a frottoir), largely absent from Cajun music, are staples of zydeco. Zydeco bands often play soul- and rhythm and blues-inflected tunes sung in Creole French.'' https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/fodors/top/features/travel/destinations/unitedstates/louisiana/neworleans/fdrs_feat_110_8.html

''The Music: Zydeco Early zydeco was a blend of Louisiana French accordion music and Afro-Caribbean beats. It sat at the crossroads of Creole, Cajun, gospel and the blues, yet has since evolved to include influences from several other genres. Instrumentation almost always includes an accordion and a frottoir, a washboard worn like a vest. Guitar and drums typically add even more rhythm and syncopation to create a highly danceable mix.'' https://www.louisianatravel.com/music/articles/zydeco-music-louisiana

''Clifton Chenier and the Birth of Zydeco ''In the late 1950s, a Creole named Clifton Chenier, who fancied himself a bluesman, versus an old-fashioned player of French Music, began calling his music Zydeco. There are several explanations as to what the term actually means, but Chenier was the first one to match the term with the genre.

''His music was bluesy, syncopated and much different than the peppy, punchy sound that many people somehow associate with Zydeco. He blazed the trail and made it clear that the music was quite different than Cajun music.''

Current Trends in Cajun and Zydeco Nowadays, many of the most popular Cajun and Zydeco artists are actually coming back to a sound more influenced by traditional French Music. Bands frequently intermingle, sharing songs, instruments, and sounds. The genres of music are still distinctly different... it's just that now these differences are being embraced by both the musicians and the fans of the music.''​ https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-cajun-music-and-zydeco-3552996

''ydeco, zarico, zodico, zologo, and even zukey jump represent a few of the spellings used by folklorists, ethnomusicologists, record producers, and filmmakers in their attempts to transcribe the word performers used to describe Louisiana's black French Creole music. The spelling zydeco was the first to appear in print, used by ethnomusicologist MacCormack in the early 1960s. Today it is the most widespread label and most record companies favor it.''

''Because its language is French or Creole, zydeco tradition has largely remained a mystery to outsiders. Folk spellings and folk etymologist often develop to explain or rationalize words and expressions whose origins or exact meanings have become unclear. Native Louisiana Creoles explain that the word zydeco comes from les haricots after the expression "Les haricots sont pas sale" ("The beans aren't salty"), heard in many of the tradition's songs. However recent studies based on early Louisiana recordings made by Alan and John Lomaz suggests that the term, as well as the tradition, may have African origins. The languages of West African tribes affected by the slave trade provide some clues as to the origins of zydeco. In at least a dozen languages from this culture-area of Africa, the phonemes "za," "re," and "go" are frequently associated with dancing and/or playing music.

''In South Louisiana, the meaning of zydeco has expanded (or survived) to refer to dance as a social event and dance styles as well as the music associated with them: Creoles go to a zydeco to dance the zydeco to zydeco music played by zydeco musicians. Used in an expanded way, as a verb, zydeco seems to have other meanings: "Let's zydeco them," or "Let's go zydeco." Community musicians are described as zydeco kings, queens, and princes. Community dance events, which provide the primary opportunity for courtship, are announced as zydecos. The word zydeco also refers to hard times and, by association, to the music that helped to endure them. In black American tradition, this music is called the blues, whether it be a "low-down" blues lament which relieves by purging, or a jumping, juking blues which relieves by distracting. Zydeco's bluesy side is sometimes based on melodies and rhythms of a delta blues tradition. Other times, an interesting confluence of European and Afro-Caribbean rhythms and sources produces haunting songs which function equally well as blues laments and as waltzes.''

Amédé Ardoin, the first black Creole musician to record in the late 1920s, figured prominently in the development of zydeco. ...continues.... http://www.louisianafolklife.org/LT/Articles_Essays/cajunzydeco.html

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Inadequate coverage of Acadian music in this article
It is very briefly mentioned but its significance is downplayed.

I am leaving for England today, so don't have time to get into this article, but someone might want to check out the book Acadian Driftwood.

''This book provides the history of Acadian and Cajun music from pre-expulsion to the revival of this music today, written by Paul-Emile Comeau, a direct descendant of the original French settlers and the premier historian of Acadian and Cajun music. He has written the National Geographic and Rough Guide encyclopedia entries for Acadian, Cajun, and Zydeco music. He has produced a 13-part series called the Connexion Acadiene for CBC radio and NPR.''

''In August 2014 at the Congres Mondial Acadien, the Acadian communities in Canada and the United States will commemorate the Grand Derangement (Expulsion) in 1755 when they were transported, under great duress, from their homes in Acadia to Louisiana. The Acadians were emigrants from France who settled in the Acadia region ( New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Maine) and built a rich culture there until the British expelled them during the French and Indian Wars. Their homes were burned, family members were separated, and they were scattered along the Eastern Seaboard, with the majority resettling in Louisiana, near Lafayette. Here the Acadians became Cajuns, developing their own language and a lively musical culture that evolved into Zydeco. The expulsion became the basis for Henry Wadsworth Longfellow s legendary poem, Evangeline and for the song Acadian Driftwood, written by Robbie Robertson and performed by The Band. American Songwriter magazine called Acadian Driftwood a masterpiece of Acadian music.'' https://books.google.ca/books?id=HTP8ngEACAAJ&dq=acadian+driftwood+comeau&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyk4CEyLfbAhUs7IMKHeHsD8AQ6AEIKTAA Peter K Burian (talk) 13:14, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Different source says Zydeco began in Houston
In the fairly new book, "Houston Bound: Culture and Color in a Jim Crow City" (American Crossroads Book 41) Tyina L. Steptoe, the well-researched claim is that zydeco began in Houston's 5th ward, and spread to Lousiana from there. "Yet for Mack McCormick, the man who first used the word zydeco, the name referred to music from Fifth Ward. Over the years, McCormick began to resent efforts by the state of Louisiana to apply zydeco to music that developed east of the Sabine River. He created the modern spelling of zydeco in Frenchtown, and he intended the name to refer to that place. “When I’m talking about zydeco,” he wrote, “I’m talking about the music of Frenchtown . . . and the people who usurped that . . . were the Louisiana tourist commissions. . . . Louisiana’s very big on tourists, so when they put out a map that says rice country, zydeco country, jazz country, and they send three million copies of the map, it’s over.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alankjackson (talk • contribs) 21:09, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Structural changes and content
Hi!

I will be working on this page over the next few weeks (or perhaps longer) as a part of an Information Literacy course I am taking at my university. I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to all that’s already been done, and look forward to getting to know those of you who are still active on this page.

I’ll drop more ideas here as they come to mind, but I think it would make sense to start simple with some priority items. I’m fairly new to this and I still have much to understand, so please feel free to respond with any concerns or corrections. I’m interested in working together to make this page as solid as it can be, and I’ll be learning a lot from you all in the process.

In the interest of standardizing, I’ve been looking at other music genre pages. Here are some changes I am thinking could improve the page:

Structure

 * Change “Musical style” to “Characteristics”.
 * Combine the two history sections into one section with subcategories
 * Instruments section is in an awkward place and contains information that overlaps heavily with musical style section. I think this section should either be moved or merged into “characteristics”.

Content

 * As another contributor mentioned above, the page is generally heavy in history and lacking in theory. I think it would be helpful for the characteristics section to go into detail on the qualities of zydeco that make it a distinct genre.
 * I think there should be a mention of the various ways the word zydeco can be used. It can refer to the music, the dance, or the event/party itself.
 * I think we should put some information in about zydeco dance and its associated steps. It’s a huge part of the music and culture, so it is important that it is given due weight.
 * The characteristics section should discuss lyrical content as well as common languages for zydeco vocals.
 * Currently, the za ré go word origin theory is stated as an alternative to les haricots. But these theories are not always presented as mutually exclusive. Some discuss the possibility that haricots came about as a natural transformation of za ré go into recognizable words by generations who did not know the West African origins.

Other

 * Needs many citations throughout.
 * Needs general copy editing.

I’ll post more as I think of other ideas, but figure it would be best to start simple with some of the formatting/structure issues. Again, please let me know if you think of anything, and I want to thank you all again for what you’ve done to build this page. I look forward to working with you all to continue moving this project in the right direction.

Best, JQGRAY (talk)