Template:Did you know nominations/Acts of Shmona and of Gurya


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by P p p er y 16:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Acts of Shmona and of Gurya

 * ... that the Acts of Shmona and of Gurya is known to exist only in a single manuscript (Add 14645, folios 238b – 245a) located in the British Museum?


 * Comment: Created on September 10th, 18 days ago
 * Comment: Created on September 10th, 18 days ago

Created/expanded by JudeccaXIII (talk). Self-nominated at 20:39, 28 September 2016 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg is the second nomination by JudeccaXIII, so QPQ is not needed. I also not that this was nominated late, 18 days, when the limit should be 10. Next time I think we should enforce the time limit, but mercy could be applied on that rule.  The article is big and referenced enough. I suspect neutrality, though I don't know if important points of view are omitted. Although the hook is in the article and cited, I don't really believe it. Surely copies have been made of that manuscript. When I look at Testamentum Domini it says it was in Syriac, but the article here says Greek.  But What is the original language of Acts of Shmona and of Gurya, and what is its title in that language (if any)? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:52, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Graeme Bartlett Thanks for pointing out "TD written in Greek", it doesn't correlate with the source. When I was typing up the article, there was only one source that stated a single manuscript was translated. I'll look further for more information about more manuscripts, but I doubt it since few sources actually clarify the translation and origins of publication. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 02:51, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Graeme Bartlett I'll be withdrawing this nomination. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 03:25, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * JudeccaXIII Well I was giving you a chance to have some hook that looked to be true. You are welcome to suggest another sentence that could be use. That is why I put the ? rather than the ×. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:33, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Graeme Bartlett ALT1 DYK that the Acts of Shmona and of Gurya setting takes place at Edessa during Diocletian's persecutions towards Christians and in Emperor Licinius's reign.

The normal age limit for DYK noms is seven days, not 10, and this was nominated after more than twice and nearly three times that many, and thus is ineligible as too old. P p p er y 18:52, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Pppery 7 or 10 days, Graeme Bartlett has made an exception. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 00:39, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * And I'm challenging this exception, which is for more than twice the age maximum. P p p er y 00:47, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * A third opinion then. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 00:50, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason I allowed time extension, is that there have been no successful DYKs for the submitter. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:46, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Here's a third opinion from an uninvolved editor: an extra 8 days is not a big deal, and being so legalistic as to deny it just for that reason is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia. Jonathunder (talk) 14:53, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not eight days, it's eleven, and this is way too old. DYK is supposed to be for new articles P p p er y 20:01, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * There's no need to shout, P, and you've made your point. But ignore all rules is policy, and we also want to encourage new contributors to make new articles. DYK can be a maze for the uninitiated. Jonathunder (talk) 20:07, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Jonathunder Do you think more opinions are required? — JudeccaXIII (talk) 02:42, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * This really isn't a big deal. An RfC would be silly. Jonathunder (talk) 14:38, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Graeme Bartlett You suggested a new DYK from the article so I offered a new DYK, but you hadn't given your option on it yet. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 21:54, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg ALT1 is short enough, I reformated the hook to add link, and take out a non-needed one. Text is in the article and has a reference in an offline book. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:22, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Graeme Bartlett You are correct about the first hook, there is more than one manuscript. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 22:29, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg I can access the ALT1 inline citation, and I do not see any mention of the Acts of Shmona and Gurya. The source says that the tombs of Shmona and Gurya, killed during the persecutions of Diocletian and Licinius, are located near the cemeteries of Edessa. How does this verify the sentence in the lead, The setting [for the text] takes place at Edessa during Diocletian's persecutions towards Christians and in Emperor Licinius's reign.? Yoninah (talk) 21:26, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yoninah Sorry for the slow response, but thanks for clarifying that citation. Prior to your question, I was actually re-reading all the sources thoroughly, and I had misinterpreted/confused the sources. I will have to change ATL1 to a new hook or probably similar to ATL1 (ATL2). I don't know how much time I have, but I'll be working on the article right after I post this message. — JudeccaXIII (talk)

Graeme Bartlett I had to do extensive changes to the article as I made mistakes to the point of having to discard ATL1. I would like to have your opinion of ATL2: ... that the setting of the Acts of Shmona and of Gurya takes place at Edessa during Roman Emperor Diocletian's Great Persecution? — JudeccaXIII (talk) 10:23, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg I have reformatted your ATL2 hook so it is in the DYK format with a link. Normally we would have said ALT2 (meaning alternative 2).  ATL2 is short enough.  It is in the article, with a reference.  However looking at the reference I do not see it saying it is taking place in Edessa.  Does it say that on a different page to 486?  On this page is says it was written in Edessa, and that Qona was the bishop of Edessa at the time. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:47, 4 November 2016‎ (UTC)
 * Graeme Bartlett I added an additional citation. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 00:01, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg OK Kaiser reference confirms the fact. The hooks is not very exciting though, so you are welcome to suggest a more hooky one. Now OK to proceed. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:17, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg ALT3: ... that the Christian martyrs Shmona and Gurya really existed, though historians question the reliability of the Syriac text describing their martyrdom? Yoninah (talk) 21:53, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yoninah I'm going to check the source again and find some more that support this or perhaps contradict it. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 22:17, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yoninah The text is historical, so ATL3 won't work. I have fixed the mistake and added an additional citation. Grammar wise though, the way I typed sounds horrible when reading out-loud. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 22:40, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm beginning to wonder if this article is fully accurate and verifiable. Yoninah (talk) 22:42, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg I have struck ALT3 due to accuracy concerns expressed by the nominator, and ALT2 because it's confusing—settings don't "take place"—and (as Graeme Bartlett notes) not very interesting. I do think that the article needs copyediting; I found a number of sentences unclear, including some key ones and ones revised since the above (what does "The reliability of the text is considered historical" even mean?), and Yoninah's worries about the article's accuracy and verifiability may or may not relate to these. The article needs some work before it can qualify for DYK, and an interesting ALT hook also needs to be proposed, since all of the previous hooks have been struck. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:22, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Graeme Bartlett & BlueMoonset I will be withdrawing my nomination as I am no longer interested in continuing the process for DYK. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 03:33, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work as it has resulted in the article improving.  We have pushed you on this.  But you are wise to know when to stop and have this closed. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Graeme Bartlett I appreciate all your help. I am also grateful that you were willing to give me a chance in trying to have my first DYK promoted. I will continue to improve/expand the article as well as create new ones, so thank you for everything. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 05:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol delete vote.svg Seems to have been withdrawn by nominator above. P p p er y 16:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)