Template:Did you know nominations/Alexander Bonner Latta


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 04:04, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Alexander Bonner Latta

 * ... that Alexander Bonner Latta invented the first practical steam fire engine that was used successfully?
 * Source ref #10 "To Moses Latta, of Cincinnati, Ohio, belongs the honor of inventing the first successful Steam Fire-Engine" King 1896, p. 13.
 * Source ref #11 "The first fire engine that was practical was the Uncle Joe Ross, invented by Alexander Bonner Latta..."
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Lionel Bussey

Created by Doug Coldwell (talk) and 7&6=thirteen (talk). Nominated by Doug Coldwell (talk) at 18:31, 7 April 2017 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg New enough. Long enough. NPOV. QPQ done. I did wonder what exactly a "steam fire engine" might be, and although I dislike overlinking, using "steam fire engine" would avoid this. Earwig together with spot-checking found no close paraphrasing issues, copyright violations or plagiarism. The article is well-cited throughout. Hook is interesting and I will assume AGF on the offline source(s). The hook is a little cumbersome, might "to be" be better than "that was"? Also, "successfully" is somewhat subjective. Our article on John Braithwaite (engineer) suggests that Braithwaite invented the first such, some 20 or more years earlier. Edwardx (talk) 22:15, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * ALT1 ... that Alexander Bonner Latta invented the first practical steam fire engine to be used successfully?
 * In reply to your concern, there were other steam fire engines made earlier by others, however none of those were used as regular equipment in a city fire department. As the Kane reference says ...was tested on January 1, 1853, the date it went into service. It was then used in the Cincinnati fire department as part of their equipment. Here "practical" and "successfully" work together = it was usable on a regular basis. To be successful on 1 test happened to many before, however it was NOT practical. This I showed in my article I created on Paul Rapsey Hodge = while he had a prior steam fire engine, it was NOT practical, because it was to heavy to transport around. The fire department abandoned the machine and did NOT use it, as it was NOT practical. There are many newspaper articles that show Latta as having the first successful practical steam fire engine that was used, it being the "Uncle Joe Ross" fire engine. Here is one article and here is another.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:49, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * ALT2 ... that Alexander Bonner Latta invented the first practical steam fire engine to be used successfully by a fire department?
 * Propose this alternate hook above.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:06, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Doug Coldwell for your diligence. This is going to be a tricky hook to get right, as both "practical" and "successful" are nebulous and subjective concepts. Even if that 1911 newspaper article supports the hook claim, it doesn't even mention Braithwaite, so its credibility is an issue. I was going to suggest something like "the first steam fire engine to be used regularly by a fire department", as to me, "successful" does rather subsume "practical". However, looking again at your article, I see that Latta's "Uncle Joe Ross" went into service in 1853, but exploded in 1855, killing its operator. From our article, one of Braithwaite's was used from 1830 to 1834 (at least), before being destroyed by a mob. Maybe there is another hook idea we could use? Edwardx (talk) 12:31, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * ALT3 ... that Alexander Bonner Latta invented the first steam fire engine to be used regularly by a fire department?
 * Propose this alternate hook above. If that works, then you can strike the other hooks so there won't be any confusion. Also the Kane reference of Famous First Facts backs this up.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:40, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Doug Coldwell. Perhaps my reply above wasn't clear. I said that I was going to suggest ALT3, but couldn't, because it appears that the a similar claim could be made for Braithwaite. Any other ideas for a hook? Edwardx (talk) 13:23, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * ALT4 ... that Alexander Bonner Latta made the first steam fire engine to be used regularly by a city fire department in the United States and other cities then followed in purchasing these from him?
 * ALT5 ... that Alexander Bonner Latta made the first steam fire engine to be used regularly by a city fire department in the United States?
 * Propose this alternate hook above. The 15 Oct 1911 newspaper clip of "First Steam Fire Engine in 1853" would be the reference = now ref #15.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:51, 13 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Need new reviewer, since ALT4 has been proposed and additional references provided. The 15 Oct 1911 newspaper clip of "First Steam Fire Engine in 1853 - Cincinnati gave it to the world and Boston was the next to adopted it" would be the main reference = now ref #15. Several other references provided.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:58, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg This article is new enough and long enough. The article is neutral and seems to be free from copyvio. The ALT5 hook, which is just ALT4 with the last bit removed, seems acceptable to me. It relies on the "first" claim given in the source being accurate for the United States, and avoids mention of any prior events in Europe. I have struck the other hooks - ALT4 is ambiguous and I had to read it three times before I got its meaning. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:32, 26 April 2017 (UTC)