Template:Did you know nominations/Artist's Studio—Look Mickey, Look Mickey

Artist's Studio—Look Mickey, Look Mickey

 * ... that Artist's Studio—Look Mickey included most of Look Mickey, which was Roy Lichtenstein's first work to use Ben-Day dots, a speech balloon and comics as a source?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Michelle Cox, Softball in New South Wales

Created/expanded by TonyTheTiger (talk). Self nom at 14:15, 13 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Alternatively we could have separate hooks:
 * (ALT1) ... that Look Mickey, which was Roy Lichtenstein's first work to use Ben-Day dots, a speech balloon and comics as a source?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:10, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * (ALT2) ... that Roy Lichtenstein's Artist's Studio—Look Mickey was inspired by Henri Matisse's L'Atelier Rouge (pictured)?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:10, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Both Artist's Studio—Look Mickey and Look Mickey are long and recent enough. The hook says 'most of' but the article says 'in its entirety'. The quote from the source (Hendrickson) doesn't tell me whether it is all of the painting or not. Also you don't give the full reference for Hendrickson, Janis. "Compilations, Syncopations, Discombobulations". We need date, publisher etc. Is it a book, paper, chapter? The Cowart is similar - I cannot tell whether Cowart p72 is page 72 of the Cowart you list in references or not. Can you tidy your references? I'm a big fan of citation templates although I know they are not compulsory. Secretlondon (talk) 22:32, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The image is used in the article but it doesn't obviously relate to the hook. If anything I'd think people would presume it was an image of Artist's Studio - Look Mickey rather than something that inspired it. The image is fine as long as it's only used with the second hook. However it's only PD in the US, not in country-of-origin. Secretlondon (talk) 22:40, 25 May 2012 (UTC)Secretlondon (talk) 22:38, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * When different pages from the same book are used, I put the source in the references section and only name the author, page and sometimes chapter in the footnotes. I think that is the issue here.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:10, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * So Compilations, Syncopations, Discombobulations is a chapter in one of the books? Secretlondon (talk) 23:13, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is why I put it in the chapter parameter of the template.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:35, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't tell that without looking at the reference template. You need to add in the book the chapter is part of to the template.Secretlondon (talk) 18:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you are telling me to do.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:20, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll try and do some work on it. I think what you really want is something like Help:Shortened_footnotes, but I'm not sure if they allow quotes. Secretlondon (talk) 23:03, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Quotes would be limited because "The postscript is only effective the first time sfn is used for a particular author, year and location." Thus, I don't want to convert to that type of template.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:11, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The image is only for use if we use separate hooks.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:10, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. the article says almost in its entirety, which is the same as most of.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:13, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Are there any remaining issues?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:08, 2 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Let's add Mural with Blue Brushstroke (nominated later as part of a different dual hook) to this hook to make it a 3-article hook:
 * ALT3... that Roy Lichtenstein's Mural with Blue Brushstroke incorporates elements of his earlier works, including Artist's Studio—Look Mickey, which in turn includes most of Look Mickey, the artist's first work to use Ben-Day dots and a speech balloon? --Orlady (talk) 22:34, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That alt hook would be interesting if it were true, but I do not believe it to be so.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:11, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The main elements of the hook are based on what I read in the Wikipedia articles. Mural with Blue Brushstroke states: "Mural with Blue Brushstroke copies or reworks many of his own work as well as a few works of other artists. Several objects in the mirror had previously been reviewed in Artist's Studio—Look Mickey: The door, part of a mirror and an entablature" and quotes a source that states: "Mural With Blue Brushstroke ... quotes or re-phrases many of his own works, as well as those of other artists. The door part of a mirror and an entablature had already been used in Artist's Studio, Look Mickey". The article Artist's Studio—Look Mickey states that "Look Mickey is almost presented undisturbed in its entirety". The part about "the artist's first work to use Ben-Day dots and a speech balloon" is from the original hook suggestion, and it is based on Look Mickey. If those statements aren't true, the problem is in the articles. --Orlady (talk) 04:57, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Please reread the Mural article. It says nothing about Artist's Studio being in it. It says some things in the Mural had been in the Studio, but not that the Studio was in the Mural.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:35, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, if I misunderstood the article, that's possibly because the word "reviewed" in the context of the phrase "objects in the mirror had previously been reviewed in Artist's Studio—Look Mickey" lacks any sensible meaning in the English language as I understand it, while language like "the mural includes highlights of Lichtenstein's earlier works" is best interpreted as indicating that it includes pieces of the earlier works. As I suggested earlier, if the article fails to effectively articulate reality, there is a problem with the article.
 * Meanwhile, perhaps somebody who knows what the sources actually say about the artwork can evaluate whether the following reworded hook is accurate:
 * ALT3A... that Roy Lichtenstein's Mural with Blue Brushstroke depicts elements seen in his earlier works, including Artist's Studio—Look Mickey, which in turn includes most of Look Mickey, the artist's first work to use Ben-Day dots and a speech balloon? --Orlady (talk) 15:59, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I would prefer that Mural is paired with Mermaid (Roy Lichtenstein). Let's see how Template:Did you know nominations/Mural with Blue Brushstroke & Mermaid works itself out.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:53, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. the sources repetedly discuss painting like it is writing talking about quoting, paraphrasing and such.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:53, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Facts should not be used in DYK hooks unless the meaning of the fact is reasonably discernible. If well-educated native speakers of English can't discern the meanings of the non-technical words in an English-language source, the information probably doesn't belong in an article, except perhaps in an attributed quotation. --Orlady (talk) 20:55, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have replaced the use of the word reviewed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:20, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Mural with Blue Brushstroke & Mermaid did not use Mural with Blue Brushstroke. We can now use it here, but we have to get the hook right.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:11, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Here is the solo hook under consideration:


 * ALT 4 ... that rather than the five colors he generally uses, Roy Lichtenstein used eighteen colors in Mural with Blue Brushstroke?
 * ALT5... that Roy Lichtenstein's Mural with Blue Brushstroke incorporates elements of his earlier works as does Artist's Studio—Look Mickey, which includes most of Look Mickey, the artist's first work to use Ben-Day dots and a speech balloon?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:17, 9 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting keep.svg Mural with Blue Brushstroke was reviewed in Template:Did you know nominations/Mural with Blue Brushstroke & Mermaid, while the two other article was reviewed by Secretlondon above. Orlady had a proposal for a different hook and that has been taken into account by the nominator who rephrased Orlady's proposal slightly. Six days have passed since the nominator last proposal, so I doubt anyone has any concerns over this hook. ALT5 good to go. Mentoz86 (talk) 10:50, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Additional comment: The hook is 233 characters, but since this is three different articles this hook meets the C3-rule on Did you know/Supplementary guidelines. Mentoz86 (talk) 10:54, 15 June 2012 (UTC)