Template:Did you know nominations/Austin Friars, London

Austin Friars, London
Created/expanded by Chrisfow (talk), Prioryman (talk). Nominated by Chrisfow (talk) at 19:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ... that Henry VIII's powerful adviser, Thomas Cromwell, lived at Austin Friars, London, and that he later dissolved the friary


 * Symbol possible vote.svg New article of sufficient size. Hook is short enough. The difficulty is that the proposed hook is not clearly verified - article states Cromwell lived in a house built on land leased from the Friary. It states the Friary was dissolved in 1538, but not by whom. Sionk (talk) 22:39, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Sionk, that has been specified in the article. Chrisfow (talk) 03:57, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The fact about his residence also needs citing and explaining where the house was located. Presumably not in the Friary itself? The Friary owned land in 3 different parishes, it seems. Maybe the 'hook' needs amending to "that Henry VIII's adviser, Thomas Cromwell, lived on land leased from Austin Friars, London, and that he later dissolved the friary"? Sionk (talk) 14:04, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In the absence of the original nominator, I've taken this on (and greatly expanded the article). I suggest the following hook inspired by Chrisfow's original:
 * ALT1: ... that Austin Friars, London became the home of Henry VIII's powerful adviser, Thomas Cromwell (pictured), who was executed only a year after he completed building his mansion there?
 * In answer to Sionk's question, Cromwell actually lived within the friary precinct; I've clarified this point in the article. Prioryman (talk) 23:33, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I prefer the original tagline, which is more about the Friary than Thomas Cromwell. The 'Did You Know' should be about the Austin Friars, after all. I'm also a bit uncomfortable that the article is almost entirely based on an unpublished PhD thesis (and the information about Cromwell was obtained from original documents at the National Archives). But at least the dissolution is cited to a different source (which gives the original tagline more legitmacy IMO). Sionk (talk) 00:25, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Although it doesn't address the sourcing, it is possible to combine the two hook approaches into one and just remain under the 200 character limit. (If "powerful" was sacrificed, it could be even shorter.) Here's an ALT2:
 * ALT2: ... that Austin Friars, London, became the home of Henry VIII's powerful adviser Thomas Cromwell (pictured), who dissolved the friary but was executed only a year after he completed building his mansion there?
 * There may be other issues that make this less than ideal, but I thought I'd offer it in case it was useful. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:22, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * My reason for preferring the original hook is that is has an element of irony and is primarily about Austin Friars. The alternative hooks are primarily about Thomas Cromwell (do we really need to know when he was executed?). On top of that we now have a picture of Thomas Cromwell, rather than one of the Friary! I'm not an experienced reviewer at DYK so I'd like and experienced reviewer to give an opinion. Sionk (talk) 11:57, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * How about this hook:
 * ALT3: ... that Austin Friars was the only friary in London to have its own prison, but became the focus of a scandal when an imprisoned friar died there in 1535?
 * That's completely friary-focused; does it work for you? Prioryman (talk) 00:34, 14 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote4.png New reviewer needed. Under the circumstances, said reviewer is welcome to go by her or his own opinion about what works as a hook. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:30, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting keep.svg Did this really get held up for some three weeks because of disagreement over the hook? *looks at own nom* oh... ALT3 is fine, focused on the friary, and interesting. Article is new enough and long enough. AGF on offline references. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, no need to use the image. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:50, 3 November 2012 (UTC)