Template:Did you know nominations/Bat-El Gatterer

Bat-El Gatterer

 * ... that Bat-El Gatterer, Israeli women's taekwondo champion, is a religiously observant Jew who was born in the West Bank?
 * Reviewed: Gerrit Beneker
 * Reviewed: Gerrit Beneker

Created/expanded by Epeefleche (talk). Self nom at 17:06, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks fine to me. I wonder however whether we couldn't make it "hookier". Maybe:
 * ... that Bat-El Gatterer, Israeli women's taekwondo champion, is a religiously observant Jew and often walks long distances to her competition venue on the Sabbath?
 * --Edcolins (talk) 13:55, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Ed. Tx.  I wonder whether it isn't actually hooker to leave in the "born in the West Bank".  Even if we add the "often walks ..." language?  Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:24, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Epeefleche, thanks to you! Why do you think it's hookier to leave in the "born in the West Bank"? Is it because Kokhav Ya'akov, the Israeli settlement where she was born, is considered illegal under international law? If so, I see the "hooking" point but I wonder whether, in that case, the hook does not "focus unduly on negative aspects" of the person (per WP:WIADYK). By "negative", I mean that it may be perceived as negative by some readers. --Edcolins (talk) 18:12, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The West Bank got 47,000 hits last month, so it appears to be of interest. It is hooky, because it is of interest (also, that she represents the country while living in that area).  There is nothing "unduly negative" in using the word West Bank.  Its certainly not a "words to avoid" phrase, but one of interest.  Plus -- the hook doesn't even mention any of the things that you are raising: neither the name of the town she is from, nor its status (which I believe is in dispute in any event--I don't think all countries agree on it).  We do avoid using a hook that has unduly negative material.  But that covers things like "X raped Y and cut their eyes out".  As to your suggested alt, it adds very little beyond the statement already in there -- that she is religiously observant, while deleting a hooky aspect.  IMHO.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:21, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. As I wrote, I am fine with the hook you proposed. I was just proposing an alternative hook that seemed "hookier" to me but, since you didn't share my view, I had just asked questions to try to understand your point of view. Now that you have explained it, I better understand your point of view, although I would still tend to believe that "often walks long distances to her competition venue on the Sabbath" is hookier than "who was born in the West Bank". Readers may indeed wonder why she often walks long distances to her competition venue on the Sabbath and then they would read the article to learn more about it (to eventually understand that there is a causal effect between being religiously observant Jew and not taking her car on the Sabbath). But I leave it to you and other contributors... Last but not least: thank you for creating the article! You did an excellent job, I must say! cheers, --Edcolins (talk) 16:15, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg nice article Pumpkin Sky  talk  14:02, 10 December 2011 (UTC)