Template:Did you know nominations/Berek Lajcher

Berek Lajcher

 * ... that the leader of Jewish prisoner uprising at the Treblinka extermination camp, Dr. Berek Lajcher (pictured), was killed in the fighting along with most insurgents?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Elizabeth Freeman Ussher‎.

Created by Poeticbent (talk). Self nominated at 00:09, 5 October 2013 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg Article is new enough, long enough, well-referenced, no close paraphrasing seen in sources. QPQ done. However, in checking the English-language sources, there seems to be a discrepancy between the sources and the statements in the article. In the lead, Footnote 2 doesn't say anything about Trawniki guards and 150 Jewish prisoners being killed in the uprising. Under The Holocaust in occupied Poland, Footnote 6 lists the day of the liquidation as September 22, not as September 21-22. Under Treblinka uprising, Footnote 3 doesn't match the information written in the article, and Footnote 4 doesn't say anything about these 4 people publishing Treblinka memoirs. I am unable to check the Polish-language sources. Yoninah (talk) 11:14, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you Yoninah for taking on my nomination. I added more citations. Many times confusion originates at source as I have learned while getting Treblinka to Good Article status awarded last week. For example, the survivor of prisoner uprising Samuel Rajzman testified that 150 escaped in the revolt, while the Holocaust Encyclopedia mentioned 300... Almost every source listed at the Treblinka article among some 135 citations, gives a slightly different date and number for each event. The most exhaustive book by Kopówka & Rytel-Andrianik published in 2011 is in the Polish language. If you want, you can use the AGF DYKtick. Also, please look through my latest revisions. The actual numbers for the footnotes have changed. If you describe them by their actual name I can doublecheck and add some more when necessary. Thank you again, Poeticbent  talk  18:42, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for adding more footnotes. However, some information in the article still doesn't line up with the source material you're citing:
 * Your article: The liquidation took place on 21-22 September
 * Source (Aleksiun): The liquidation took place on 22 September
 * ✔️ I added second anchor confirmig that the action began at dawn on 21 Sep. and concluded a day later.
 * Your article: "20-25 rifles, 20 hand grenades and a dozen pistols"
 * Source (Rajzman): "20 hand grenades, 20 rifles, and several revolvers with cartridges"
 * ✔️ I fixed that to follow exactly what Rajzman said. The range came from a combination of sources. For example, the prisoner uprising survivor Henry Sperling said that two boxes of hand grenades and 37 rifles were stolen (as oppose to 20), which I did not include.
 * Your article: "Lajcher launched the uprising on a hot summer day when a group of Germans and Ukrainians drove off to the Bug River for a swim"
 * Source (Rajzman): I don't see any of this in the source
 * ✔️ I added second anchor. Weinfeld said the same thing about the river swim, but both sources are in Polish so I left the second one out for now.
 * Your article: "Several Trawniki guards were killed and some 150 Jewish prisoners escaped"
 * Source (Rajzman): "only 150 to 200 succeeded in escaping; the others perished in the camp as well as over 20 Germans" (how do you know these were Trawniki guards?)
 * ✔️ This article is linked to Treblinka article where a lot more background can be found. Trawniki guards were the only guards at the camp, while the overseers where German and Austrian. Rajzman was not correct when he mentioned 20 Germans. No native Germans died in the uprising as indicated by the lack of official report from Stangl, Wirth and Globocnik. This is cited to Kopówka & Rytel-Andrianik 2011 (anchor added).
 * Your article: "Half were killed after a chase in cars and on horses"
 * Source (Rajzman): I don't see any details about a car or horse chase
 * ✔️ This comes from Kopówka & Rytel-Andrianik 2011.
 * I would also like to mention that the hook is not so hooky. Running a revolt is a risky business. If you can source it, the part about launching the uprising on a hot day when the Germans went off for a swim might be more interesting, or something about the number of men and the number of weapons they had. Yoninah (talk) 19:57, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Please suggest the actual phrasing of a new hook. Much obliged, Poeticbent  talk  21:18, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I can suggest some, but I can't approve my own hooks:
 * ALT1: ... that Dr. Berek Lajcher (pictured) chose a hot summer day when German and Ukrainian guards went swimming in the nearby Bug River to launch a prisoner revolt at the Treblinka death camp?
 * ALT2: ... that Dr. Berek Lajcher (pictured) led a prisoner revolt at the Treblinka death camp with 20 stolen rifles, 20 hand grenades and a few pistols? Yoninah (talk) 22:12, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Yoninah. This is great. Let the promoter choose what they like best. All our hooks are wery well sourced. Poeticbent  talk  22:23, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * ALT3: ... that Dr. Berek Lajcher (pictured) chose a hot summer day to launch a prisoner revolt at the Treblinka death camp while German and Ukrainian guards went swimming in the nearby Bug River?
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Could another reviewer please weigh in on ALTs 1, 2, or 3? The Treblinka page was approved for GA 4 days ago, which also qualifies for DYK. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:39, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: Please note, this is a two article nomination. Second one, Treblinka extermination camp was promoted to Good article status on 24 October 2013. Thanks,  Poeticbent  talk  23:01, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Good articles/Log id=578540448
 * Note to administrator: How do we give Poeticbent credit for the Treblinka credit on this nomination? Yoninah (talk) 13:16, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Special request: – Please hold this entry until such time as the photo can be used. We have just missed Berek Lajcher's 120 birth anniversary on October 24, 2013. Thank you, Poeticbent  talk  14:46, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg To me, ALT3 is the most suitable hook from the three provided above. Let me check the article one more time before passing the nomination.--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 18:39, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Everything checked. Good to go.--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 19:04, 1 November 2013 (UTC)