Template:Did you know nominations/Birdsill Holly


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 10:34, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Birdsill Holly

 * ... that Birdsill Holly's hydrant innovations (Holly fire-hydrant pictured) are responsible for the design of the modern fire hydrant?


 * ALT1: ... that Birdsill Holly invented a water pumping system for city mains that not only supplied drinking water for domestic service, but also furnished water under pressure for fire hydrants (Holly fire-hydrant pictured)?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Davina Delor

5x expanded by Doug Coldwell (talk). Self-nominated at 19:48, 3 January 2016 (UTC).
 * Comment to Promoter - can this be #1 in the queue WITH the picture. Thanks!--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:45, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment Review under way. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 19:55, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Review Symbol confirmed.svg Clean, neat, long enough. Timely nomination.  5X expansion after creator moved draft article from his work space to the encyclopaedia. No copyright or close paraphrasing issues.  Both hooks are cited and check out.  Neutral and relate to essence of article.  QPQ done.  Picture is used in article, free and clear. Another 'patented' Doug Coldwell masterwork!  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 20:25, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg Pulled back from prep because the original hook material is not anywhere in the article that I can see: the only use of the word "modern" is in a photo caption, and the article doesn't talk about today's fire hydrants. (How does the current shape come from the innovations 150 years ago?) I couldn't substitute ALT1 because the hook facts are not cited by the end of the sentence that contains them, as required by WP:DYK, Eligibility criteria 3, Cited hook. When reading through, looking for the original hook material, I kept finding minor glitches, like inconsistent birth years between article and caption and within the article (his father died in 1830, at which point he would have been seven or eight if he was born in August 1822), a different spelling of his surname listed first thing in the article ... basics that should be fixed before the article is promoted. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:54, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I will work on those problems immediately.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:36, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Added inline citations accordingly for ALT1. Will that work for you?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Also 7&amp;6=thirteen provided the line in the reference quote for "modern" idea - "While Holly was only one of many involved in the development of the fire hydrant, innovations he introduced are largely responsible for the fire hydrant we take for granted today." - Do we have it covered?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:34, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I thought it was all there all along. I've now provided an an line quotation from one of the cited sources for the original hook.    7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 12:37, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * In a passing note the original hook does not talk about the shape but the internal mechanical hydrant innovations design of the system, which is what the reference talks about.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:56, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * In the article I used the words - which used pumps powered by water-turbines and steam-engines to bring water to hydrants in the city. This is covered also in his later invention Improvement in systems of water-supply for cities. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:11, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps by adding the word "system" to the end of the original hook, it would clear up the ambiguities. Would that bring back in the original hook?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Although I do see similarities to today's world fire hydrants. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:06, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


 * ALT2 ... that Birdsill Holly's hydrant innovations (Holly fire-hydrant pictured) are responsible for the impetus of the fire hydrant system used in the United States?
 * Will ALT2 work for you?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:42, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Did the corrections you suggested. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:10, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the corrections, Doug Coldwell. ALT1 is fine, but if you want to use ALT2 I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for further adjustments. The hook fact must be in the article text, not a quote in its footnotes, and frankly I don't know what "impetus of the fire hydrant system" means in this context (the footnote quote is talking about waterworks systems in general), though it sounds quite dull. Note that if you are happy with ALT1 being the hook that's promoted, let me know and I'll give it a tick and strike ALT2. I have fixed both ALT hooks so the parenthesis surrounding the "pictured" statement is also in italics per the DYK formatting instructions. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:20, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. O.K. - lets go with ALT1 (184 characters). You can strike ALT2. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 17:04, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT1 approved: short enough, cited inline, and neutral. Rest of review per 7&amp;6=thirteen. ALT2 struck. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:21, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finalizing it. Did you mean to strike ALT2 instead?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:43, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I sure did. Thanks, Doug Coldwell, for letting me know I'd struck the wrong hook. My apologies! It should be fixed now, with ALT1 unstruck, and ALT2 lined through. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC)