Template:Did you know nominations/Clarence Louie

Clarence Louie

 * ... that Chief Clarence Louie of the Osoyoos Indian Band started the first Aboriginal-owned winery in North America?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Jebel Musa (Morocco)

Created/expanded by The Interior (talk). Self nom at 06:15, 28 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Meets all criteria. Not sure that "of the Osoyoos Indian Band" is necessary as it extends the length of the hook, but it still passes. violet/riga [talk] 00:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Pulled from prep area because neither the article nor the source indicates that he started the winery. I looked at the article because I wondered if "Aboriginal" was the right term, especially in uppercase as a proper noun. --Orlady (talk) 13:08, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've made it clearer in the article. It could be argued that he didn't start the winery but as he is the Chief as well as the CEO I would assume it is correct. It could be changed slightly to better reflect the article/references. violet/riga [talk] 13:39, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg Since the Osoyoos did start the winery, how about this rewording:
 * ALT1: ... that Clarence Louie is chief of the Osoyoos Indian Band, which started the first aboriginal-owned winery in North America?
 * Another approach would be to highlight a different accomplishment, like being elected chief at 24 in 1984—although another article says he has been chief since 1985, perhaps when he took office, and that he has lost at least one election for the post, so he hasn't been chief continuously since then, meaning that the article needs to be fixed (and may be worth a hook). That accomplishment would need to be inline sourced, of course. BlueMoonset (talk) 13:53, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg The recent edits to the article helped resolve my concern. I think the winery makes for an interesting hook. I endorse the following revised hook wording, which is supported by cited sources:
 * ALT2: ... that during Clarence Louie`s tenure as chief, the Osoyoos Indian Band started the first aboriginal-owned winery in North America? --Orlady (talk) 20:50, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the lack of clarity in the hook and article. I haven't been able to find a detailed history of Nk'mip (much PR, but nothing substantial).  The Osoyoos band certainly ran vineyards before Louie, but not a winery and certainly not as a tony brand.  As for the claim that he "started" Nk'mip, I settled on that wording because of his dual role as chief and CEO of the OIBDC.  He partnered with the feds and vino bigwig David Triggs (Jackson-Triggs) to develop a major business.  I felt comfortable crediting the CEO with starting a business that developed under his auspices.  But perhaps that is a stretch with the refs I currently have in place.  I'd be fine with Orlady's ALT2.  As for the use of "Aboriginal" as a proper noun, that question is as murky as the politics surrounding First Nations people in BC.  The federal  and provincial governments do use it as a proper noun, i.e. the Department of Aboriginal Affairs (e.g. here), but many bands prefer "First Nations", and others (such as the Osoyoos) still use the mostly deprecated "Indian", and still others prefer "native" as is common in the US.  So no easy fix on that front.  Appreciate all the critical eyes on this one.  The Interior  (Talk) 21:53, 3 August 2012 (UTC)