Template:Did you know nominations/Complex Vertebral Malformation

Complex Vertebral Malformation
Created by Pitke (talk). Self nom at 11:55, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ... that the expectional Holstein sire Carlin M Ivanhoe Bell passed on Complex Vertebral Malformation, a lethal genetic disorder?
 * "Passed on" seems like an awkward euphemism to me. Should just say "died of". r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 17:02, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand; "passed on" as in "passed on to his progeny", not "died of". Pitke (talk) 19:31, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yet another reason why the hook should be reworded. I couldn't even understand what it meant. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 22:15, 28 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Be friendly, Rjanag. ;-) I'll propose an ALT hook below. Feel free to tweak on this one too, it's (I think) 195 characters as proposed -- I'm having trouble getting all the concepts to fit under 200 characters   Montanabw (talk) 04:01, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

ALT 1
 * ...that complex vertebral malformation is a recessive genetic disorder in Holstein cattle that is lethal if inherited from both parents, and the famed sire Carlin M Ivanhoe Bell was a genetic carrier?


 * This is all ok. Pitke (talk) 12:14, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * With hooks it's usually best not to try to cram in as much information as you can. This one could be improved by shortening to something like
 * ALT2 ... the famed Holstein sire Carlin M Ivanhoe Bell was a carrier for a potentially lethal genetic disorder? r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 15:14, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That's even nicer, although I don't really like the "potentially" there -- it is 100% lethal when homozygous after all. How about this? Pitke (talk) 20:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ALT3 ... the famed Holstein sire Carlin-M Ivanhoe Bell was a carrier for a lethal genetic disorder?
 * ALT4 ... the famed Holstein sire Carlin M Ivanhoe Bell was the progenitor of complex vertebral malformation, a lethal recessive gene?

Comment but now you've tossed the name of the article, which is the important bit, it's a weird one. How about:  the famed Holstein sire Carlin M Ivanhoe Bell was a genetic carrier of complex vertebral malformation? Montanabw (talk) 23:41, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Another comment right. But I just realised, we've also dropped the main point of the hook; Carlin etc wasn't just "a" carrier, he's the first common ancestor of all modern carriers, and spread the gene all over the world through his progeny thanks to his otherwise superior genes. I blame English for not having more synonyms for "passed on" in the genetic sense òmó Pitke (talk) 05:38, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I think "a lethal genetic disorder" is more eye-catching than "complex vertebral malformation". I also don't think it's necessary to specify that he is the first common ancestor to all these carriers, unless you can word it in a way that's punchier than ALT3. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 04:04, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Doesn't the name of the article need to be in the hook, at least ideally? See ALT 4. Even if not, to me, that's the cool thing about this article, a weird disease.  "Lethal" is sexy, but trust me, put that word on the main page all by itself without explanation and somehow every Holstein breeder in the English-speaking world will show up and be VERY VERY upset.  (At least, if cattle breeder politics are as touchy as horse breeder politics)   Montanabw (talk) 21:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no requirement that the name of the article appear in the hook; piped links are fine. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 01:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)


 * ALT5 ... that the exceptional Holstein sire Carlin M Ivanhoe Bell passed on both the genes for good milk production and Complex Vertebral Malformation, a lethal genetic disorder?
 * It's a shame there isn't really an opposite of "inherit". "Bequeath", maybe, but it's pompous and not very scientific. Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 11:28, 13 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I have a feeling that's about as good as we're going to get. Pitke (talk) 12:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I like it, though I wonder if we should keep "famed" instead of "exceptional." Not a huge issue, but I can imagine someone saying, "how could he be "exceptional" if he carried a genetic disease?"  (Which is dumb, yes, but they can't argue with "famed" that way).  However, I don't actually care that much and ALT5 IS OK with me.   Montanabw

If someone said that, I'd just reply with "exceptional milk production", and pass on the index scores. And ALT5 is my fav too. I guess we're done. Pitke (talk) 21:22, 13 September 2011 (UTC)(talk) 20:25, 13 September 2011 (UTC)