Template:Did you know nominations/Deckmyn vs Vandersteen


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by EEng (talk) 22:03, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Deckmyn vs Vandersteen

 * ... that Vlaams Belang politician Deckmyn produced a calendar considered to carry a discriminating message by a Belgian judge?

Created by L.tak (talk). Self nominated at 20:16, 4 June 2014 (UTC).


 * hook needs attention - I think it needs the word "racist", but I havent checked the source. I did edit it boldly to make it read better Victuallers (talk) 12:53, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, the verdict states "een discriminerende boodschap", which is not per definition racist (e.g. it could also be discrimination against religion....); but your corrections seem to match the wording of the Dutch even better... L.tak (talk) 13:27, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The problem is that "discriminating messages" are not illegal. Racial and sexual discrimination may be. I guess the hook could rely on the usual shorthand that treats "discrimination" per se as something bad .... only unfair discrimination is usually illegal. Victuallers (talk) 21:56, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg Created 2 June, nominated 4 June, so new enough, also long enough. No requirement for QPQ from this self-nom; fewer than 5 DYKs credited. No problems with disambig links, or with problems of access to external links (but see issue 1). The text is objectively written and neutral in style. The hook is referenced in the header to citation #1 (but see issue 2). I am unable to check the Dutch-language sources for copyvio, and I'm taking it AGF that there is no copyvio - especially as there are three quotations in the article, which indicates a responsible attitude regarding copyright. Issues: (1) External link for citation #3 is flagged as suspicious by DYK tool, but not by my Avast firewall. It may be OK, but is there an alternative source available? (2) Re hook. It is clear from the above discussion that this nom is not going to be promoted unless either an agreement can be reached on the word "discriminating" or another hook can be suggested. (3) The text is not fully cited; the minimum requirement is a citation at the end of each paragraph, especially a legal subject such as this one, which is likely to be fully documented in the media. Summary: when issues 1-3 are resolved, this nom should be OK. --Storye book (talk) 16:23, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the word we're looking for is discriminatory, but there's a whole lot that needs sorting out in this article. I can hardly tell what the case is even about. Who did what??? EEng (talk) 21:54, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I found several English-language sources that may be helpful in understanding the topic and editing the article:, , , . --Orlady (talk) 19:11, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

I realize it is a complicated matter. We have a court case, and then questions asked to the CJEU, and then an opinon of the Advocate General how the court might answer those questions. Not yet in, but to be expected: a ruling from the CJEU, followed by a ruling from the Belgian court (in conformation with the CJEU ruling). I think that is clear in the article, but not in the lede, and I have therefore reordered it... That also means that the main encyclopedic value (what the court will rule on the parody exception in the copyright directive) will be a bit down... I furthermore linked preliminary reference, and derivative work which provide helpful reference regarding the procedure... I do see problems with the hook however...Maybe we should try a somewhat lighter alternative? L.tak (talk) 19:54, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * ... that a reproduction [derivative work] of a Spike and Suzy cover is the object of a Belgian court case
 * ... that Spike and Suzy are on trial
 * ... Belgian judges asked the European Court of Justice the meaning of parody


 * I like judges asking the meaning of parody. EEng (talk) 15:35, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And in a weird way it is the best 12 (15) word summary of the article I would be able to come up with; so let's have that as a preference... I am btw still a bit in doubt about one of the refs, which one of the tools flags as suspicious... Is there a way to find out why the bot feels that way; so we can evaluate wether that applies in this specific case? L.tak (talk) 13:45, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, let's see what we can do. I'm making some copy edits--removing Dutchisms, wiki links, etc. BTW, nothing I'm looking at is being flagged by any bot. Drmies (talk) 23:40, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm willing to tick this off with the "meaning of parody" hook (which I've silently amended). However,, there is one thing: the events in the chronology need references--that's one of the DYK rules. Or you scrap that table altogether. Drmies (talk) 00:00, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the copyediting and adnl review... I have referenced the table (removing was indeed also an option... but this may help some understand the chronology), so as far as I am concerned, it is good to go... L.tak (talk) 20:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Drmies (talk) 18:10, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

To prep1 as
 * ... that the Court of Appeal of Brussels asked the European Court of Justice the meaning of parody?

EEng (talk) 18:32, 19 July 2014 (UTC)