Template:Did you know nominations/Dudum siquidem

Dudum siquidem

 * ... that by his bull Dudum siquidem Alexander VI (pictured) extended his grant of new lands to Spain to "all islands and mainlands whatsoever ... in the route of navigation towards the west or south?"
 * Reviewed: Anna Curtenius Roosevelt

Created by Moonraker (talk). Self nom at 15:52, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg Good article on solid sources. Hook (supported by ref 11, but not 1 as mentioned in the lead, - the lead doesn't need a refanyway): I understand the wish to have the article subject first, but in this case, with the bull that the many will take for an animal, and then Latin, I suggest to switch the order, and find it longish, so perhaps:
 * ALT1: ... that Pope Alexander VI (pictured) extended by his bull Dudum siquidem his grant of new lands to Spain to "all islands and mainlands whatsoever ... discovered and to be discovered"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:36, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You are right, ref. (1) was out of place, so I have turned it into an external link and we are now relying on (10). Always happy for the hook to be fine-tuned, although to me "extended by his bull" sounds comical! Perhaps the subject deserves it. Moonraker (talk) 17:31, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Indeed, quirky, probably not wanted, your turn for tuning ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:37, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * We are near the limit of 200 characters, and I can't seem to change the order of this hook comfortably without going over it. Of course, you could try a quite different hook, something like this...
 * ALT2: ... that when Pope Alexander VI (pictured) issued his bull Dudum siquidem, the mention in it of India caused consternation in Portugal?  Moonraker (talk) 18:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you want to pursue that it needs a ref after the fact. How about shortening the other, because I think ALT2 needs too much knowledge of the context to be easily understood:
 * ALT3: ... that Pope Alexander VI (pictured) wrote a bull Dudum siquidem which granted new lands of "all islands and mainlands ... discovered and to be discovered" to Spain? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:50, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That doesn't work, because Inter caetera (linked in "granted new lands") was a different bull, and Dudum siquidem goes further. On Alt2, most DYK hooks are obscure. Indeed, the aim is surely to make casual readers want to find out more about something new to them? You're right, though, I need to add a reference immediately after the statement in the article. Moonraker (talk) 14:47, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting keep.svg ALT2 then, offline sources accepted AGF, image suitable and free, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 20 January 2013 (UTC)