Template:Did you know nominations/Edmond Genet


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Meanderingbartender (talk) 06:25, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Edmond Genet

 * ... that Edmond Genet was the first American flier to die in the First World War after the United States declared war against Germany?

Source:" ...he rounded out a brief but beautiful life and was the first American airman to fall in battle flying the Stars and Stripes." Second col "Genet was the first American to be killed after the United States declared war upon Germany." "Edmond Genet deliberately deserted the United States navy, but he did so in order to enter a greater thing the war." page xviii
 * ALT1:... that Edmond Genet deserted the US Navy to fight for the French Foreign Legion in the First World War?
 * Comment: Some sources are saying he was the first American. It might be true but safer to say he was the first flier.
 * Comment: Some sources are saying he was the first American. It might be true but safer to say he was the first flier.

5x expanded by Meanderingbartender (talk) and Danny (talk). Nominated by Meanderingbartender (talk) at 01:17, 31 March 2018 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg 5x expansion verified. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. No QPQ needed for nominator with less than 5 DYK credits. Images in article are freely licensed.
 * I don't think we should use the first hook, because his status is unclear. The secretary of the navy said he had un-deserted because he died in battle; that sounds strange to me. Also, the US hadn't even sent troops to fight, and here he's the first American who dies. I'm worried that someone is going to pounce on this hook at WP:ERRORS. Regarding ALT1, I don't see an inline cite for the fact that he "deserted".
 * I wonder if you could fashion something hookier around his dual allegiances, like the fact that he enlisted in the US Navy, fought for France, died as an American, and was buried in the French flag, or something like that (I read the article, but I'm still not clear on the sequence of events). Yoninah (talk) 22:19, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand the hesitation with the first hook, however, it's already fairly hedged. He was unquestionably the first American flier to die. There's no evidence to suggest that any other American had died in the weeks following the declaration of war but there's still a possibility that one did die as there were thousands of Americans already fighting. Regarding alt1, it was the forward to the collection of letters and I added the inline reference. Genet considered himself a deserter as his family did. No formal charges were ever brought.
 * I've been trying to think of another hook but all are too long or convoluted. Thank you kindly. Meanderingbartender (talk) 19:35, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for adding citations to the desertion section. But reading it over, it doesn't say outright that he deserted, just that he could be classified as a deserter, or that his actions could be considered treasonous. We have to be very clear here so we won't run into problems at WP:ERRORS or getting the hook pulled. Here is what I suggest:
 * ALT2: ... that Edmond Genet (pictured) joined the United States naval militia, fought for the French Foreign Legion, and became the first American casualty of World War I?
 * We would need a cite for the sentence Although other Americans had died as part of the Escadrille, he was the first one to do so after the US declaration, which made him the first official American casualty of the war, despite the fact that the US had not yet had time to organize or send any actual troops to Europe. Yoninah (talk) 21:17, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You are slightly too good at this Yoninah. I think ALT2 is great. I'll double check but I believe most of the references attached to "While Genet was not a member of the US military at the time.." should work. Meanderingbartender (talk) 21:33, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Did you want to promote this or should we ask for a new reviewer? Thank you kindly Meanderingbartender (talk) 16:58, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Yes, if you like ALT2, we need another reviewer for it. Yoninah (talk) 20:53, 16 May 2018 (UTC)