Template:Did you know nominations/Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott, Op. 27


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:59, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott, Op. 27

 * ... that Max Reger composed the chorale fantasia Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott, Op. 27 for Karl Straube who premiered it from the manuscript?


 * Reviewed: WWT Slimbridge
 * Comment: would be best on Reformation Day 31 October, if that wasn't Halloween

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 21:28, 11 September 2016 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg This article is new enough and long enough. It is neutral and is unlikely to have copyright or plagiarism issues. There are several sentences in the article that are relevant to the hook - "Reger wrote the works for Karl Straube", "... premiered several of his works from the manuscript" and "... Karl Straube, who played the first performance in Wesel on 20 September 1898." However, the article does not state whether this premier was "from the manuscript". I suspect that the answer lies in the meaning of the phrase "from the manuscript", and if so, please define it here. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:11, 15 September 2016 (UTC)


 * manuscript is a different added fact, supported by publicataion after the day of the premiere. I remember that one source mentions that Straube played most of the fantasias from manuscript, but have no time to check where that was, - pleasantly away, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:04, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Would it be fair to say that if a work is performed before it has been published (ie put into print) then it must have been "from the manuscript", or would this deduction be an example of the kind of OR that Fram thinks I engage in? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:25, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds like OR to me. It could have been hand-copied so that Reger had the original and Straube had a clean copy. In fact, there's no guarantee that the publisher got the original manuscript; there's a good chance that a clean copy was made, especially if the original had corrections on it (as can often happen). BlueMoonset (talk) 20:13, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * What you say brings me back to my original question - does "from the manuscript" have a specific definition that I don't know? Gerda offers another hook below, but would it be better to substitute the last three words by "before it was published"? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:57, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Cwmhiraeth, I've just checked, and apparently, for music, "manuscript" means handwritten as opposed to printed. However, "the manuscript" to me implies that there's just one (thus the original rather than a copy), so I'd use "a manuscript". Since the work wasn't published for another six months and had been completed days or a couple of weeks before the concert, it would have had to have been performed from manuscript, unless Straube had time to memorize it. (The organists I know all play from music, not from memory, but I don't know whether this guarantees that Straube didn't memorize it.) The article does note that the piece was the "first work by Reger to find success with the public", which I think could be more interesting than performing from manuscript, something that was typical at the time when premiering a work. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:13, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I may have a language problem, is this better:


 * ALT1 ... that Max Reger composed the chorale fantasia Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott, Op. 27 for Karl Straube who premiered it from a manuscript? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:31, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Another hook, as suggested by BlueMoonset:


 * ALT2 ... that Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott, Op. 27, a chorale fantasia for organ, was Max Reger's first work to find success with the public and provided him with his breakthrough as a composer? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:54, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * If we go that line, how about shorter:
 * ALT3 ... that Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott, Op. 27, a chorale fantasia for organ, was Max Reger's first work to find success with the public?
 * Any more Halloweenish hook, perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:34, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Could you translate "Erstes Werk in Weiden: Fantasie über den Choral "Ein" feste Burg ist unser Gott' op. 27 a, eines seiner erfolgreichsten Werke." for me? Google translate gives the end part as "one of his most successful works" which is not the same as "first work to find success with the public". Or is the hook fact in some other part of the cited page? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:02, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Please ask BlueMoonset, that wasn't my hook. Google is right in this case, Could we reword the original?
 * ALT4:: ... that Max Reger composed the chorale fantasia Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott, Op. 27 for Karl Straube who premiered it before it was published? which can be verified by comparing the two dates. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:37, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg ALT4 is acceptable and I have struck the other hooks. Good to go. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:00, 13 October 2016 (UTC)