Template:Did you know nominations/Fünf Lieder, Op. 105 (Brahms)


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:29, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Fünf Lieder, Op. 105 (Brahms)

 * ... that Johannes Brahms used a melody from Fünf Lieder, Op. 105, for an extended cello solo in his Second Piano Concerto? Source:
 * Reviewed: Moupin pika
 * Comment: a lot of German in the songs, so perhaps stay instrumental, - the piano concerto article says it's 3 minutes before the piano even comes in, - highly unusual, - will try to find more sources for that

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 12:25, 18 September 2017 (UTC).


 * Hi Gerda, I'll take this one on. Reviewing. Andreas JN 466 23:13, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Summary of review: I made some copyedits based on a careful reading of Rij. Best, Andreas JN 466 00:29, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It's new, created seven days ago.
 * It's long enough (well over 1,500 characters of prose).
 * It's within policy, neutral, citing sources, and free of close paraphrasing/plagiarism.
 * Hook length is okay.
 * Symbol question.svg Hook content has a problem. Piano Concerto No. 2 (Brahms) predates op. 105 by five years: in other words, he re-used the cello solo in the Lieder, not the other way round. I'm not sure how identical the melodies are: the source states the melody in the lied "recalls with tender pathos the ghostly half-remembered outline of the theme of the slow movement of the Second Piano Concerto".
 * QPQ done.
 * No image, thus no image issues.
 * I don't know yet enough about the exact timing, - the insertion of the melody was later (it was different in the 1878 version), says the concerto article, but without a date (1881?). How about - to be safe -
 * ALT1: ... that Johannes Brahms used the same melody for a song of his Fünf Lieder, Op. 105, as for an extended cello solo in his Second Piano Concerto? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:49, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The source says, "Brahms's song of the dying girl Immer leiser wird mein Schlummer recalls with tender pathos the ghostly half-remembered outline of the theme of the slow movement of the Second Piano Concerto". Why are we calling it an "extended cello solo"? Andreas JN 466 02:17, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Because it's more interesting, and true. Three minutes of sounding like a cello concerto. Who knows if Brahms didn't have the text already in mind?
 * ALT2: ... that Johannes Brahms used the same melody for a song of his Fünf Lieder, Op. 105, as for the theme of the slow movement of his Second Piano Concerto? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:00, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg for ALT1 and ALT2, at Gerda's discretion. I've added a source to the article that mentions the cello solo in the Andante explicitly, and says Brahms used the same theme a few years later for "Immer leiser ...". That makes the hooks verifiable by the reader and ties this up. Best, Andreas JN 466 14:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:11, 20 September 2017 (UTC)