Template:Did you know nominations/Fatima-Zahra Mansouri

Fatima-Zahra Mansouri
Created/expanded by Rosiestep (talk), Dr. Blofeld (talk), Nvvchar (talk). Nominated by Nvvchar (talk) at 22:55, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * ... that Fatima-Zahra Mansouri father, who was pasha (deputy governor) of Marrakech for eight years, died the evening Fatima won the Mayoral elections?


 * Reviewed Franciszek Ksawery Lampi-- Nvvchar . 05:58, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg This looks decent enough (and interesting enough). The sources are reputable and the article is generally well-written (I've made a few minor copyedits for grammar and style). Length and date are fine. Prioryman (talk) 20:12, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg What does "On 7 July 2011, Mansouri turned in her resignation to the city council as her appointment was shrouded in controversy" mean? Mansouri appointed herself? She was already mayor, so that doesn't make sense. This sentence is in the lead, so I looked at the body of the article for details, but whatever this controversy might be isn't explained there. Furthermore, her father is said to be "a former assistant to the local authority chief" in the lead, but a former pasha in the "Background" paragraph: both are sourced, and the latter is used in the hook. He may be both, but the context is missing. I think this article needs to be improved and made more consistent with itself before it can be promoted to the front page. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * A passing comment: A pasha, in former Ottoman countries, is usually a social title, rather than a strict official post. So he can be both, a pasha, and whatever his official post is, and even when he's relieved of his duties, he'll still be a pasha. Yazan (talk) 17:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I have made changes to the text in the lead and also fixed a reference. I hope it meets your observations.Thanks.-- Nvvchar . 17:46, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm still quite puzzled. One of the sources of the 7 July 2011 statement is a Jeune Afrique article dated 25 January 2010, 18 months earlier. As best I can tell from that article, Mansouri won the election on 23 June 2009, but it was on 13 July 2009 that the election results were annulled by a tribunal, which was later reversed on appeal. Did something else happen on 7 July 2011, and are the two events being conflated? Can I ask which part of the Jeune Afrique article supports the statement "Mansouri turned in her resignation to the city council"? (If it doesn't, then it shouldn't be cited here.) BlueMoonset (talk) 18:11, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I can only give this clarification. It is certain from reference 4 that she got elected on June 23 and the court probed into the issue of ballots having been distributed before the legal date and some vote records destroyed, the verdict however, came on 23 July, the intervening period can only be explained as the time taken by the court to examine the issue and give the verdict which was a unilateral action. What happened on 7 July is not clear. However, her threat of resigning is also supported by this reference . My suggestion is that instead of giving dates of elections, it could be mentioned as in June and the verdict as on July 23.-- Nvvchar . 20:41, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


 * As best I can tell, you are conflating two completely different events two years apart. First, there's her 2009 election, the tribunal nullification shortly thereafter, and the overturning of that nullification. All of that occurred in 2009. Completely separately, you have her 2011 resignation and withdrawal of that resignation the following day, assuming it was a resignation and not a threat to resign that was withdrawn the next day. (The source you give above says merely that she threatened to resign, not that she'd actually submitted her resignation. The Hespress source in the article seems to imply that a resignation was submitted—I only have a rather poor Google Translate version to work with—but it seems to be relying on vague sources that are not necessarily confirmed.) These events are two years apart, yet the 2011 resignation is being presented as part of the 2009 election aftermath, which is not supported by the sources as far as I can see. This all needs to be clarified. If you will accept my suggestion, the explanations belong in the Career section, not in the article's introduction, and as separate entries: first the 2009 events, later the 2011 events. According to WP:LEAD, the introduction should not have any information that is not in the body of the article. (This isn't a DYK requirement, but it makes sense to do it now anyway.) BlueMoonset (talk) 04:58, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * 2011: Asdaa al-Maghrib here reports that she submitted her resignation on 7 July 2012, after several confrontation with members of the province and city council. She retracted her resignation the next day 8 July. Hope it helps. Both are completely separate. Yazan (talk) 05:25, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I have tried to structure the article a bit, add some sources. The Jeune Afrique article that forms the backbone seems a bit starstruck, and that maybe carries through to make the article less than entirely neutral. Anyway, it has changed enough from the original that fresh eyes should take a look. Aymatth2 (talk) 03:49, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Well done Aymatth2 for doing the final work needed to get this ready for the front page. The article is now better structured than previously. I really don't see any issues with neutrality. Article is well referenced, and my limited knowledge of French extends to confirming the hook facts. No other problems that I can see. Moswento talky 14:29, 13 December 2012 (UTC)