Template:Did you know nominations/Finnish icebreaker Voima (1952)

Finnish icebreaker Voima (1952)

 * ... that the Finnish icebreaker Voima, built in 1952, was the first icebreaker with two bow propellers (pictured)?
 * Reviewed: Bachtiar Effendi
 * Comment: I am mainly citing Finnish sources dating back to the 1950s within the article body, but added a number of more recent references in English to the lead to help with the DYK process.

Created/expanded by Tupsumato (talk). Self nom at 19:39, 27 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Could we drop the first "icebreaker" from the hook and just say "Finnish Voima, built in 1954, was the first icebreaker..."? I'm not a native speaker, so I can't say if it makes any sense? Tupsumato (talk) 21:26, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, instead, replace the second "icebreaker" with "in the world", so people know right away it's an icebreaker (and, indeed, a ship):
 * ALT1: ... that the Finnish icebreaker Voima, built in 1952, was the first in the world with two bow propellers (pictured)? –BlueMoonset (talk) 16:33, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem is that Voima was not the first ship with two bow propellers — the Canadian ferry Abegweit was built in 1947 — so I think it must be clearly stated that it was the first icebreaker in the world with two propellers in the bow. Also, I don't think that it is necessary to identify Voima as a ship before going into details since it becomes obvious after reading three fingers further. Thus, I propose the following alternative (with minor modifications in wording):
 * ALT2: ... that the Finnish Voima, launched in 1952, was the first icebreaker in the world with two bow propellers (pictured)? -Tupsumato (talk) 17:21, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote4.png Needs complete review. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:13, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg looking at ALT2. Long enough was recent enough. OTRS hasn't received/processed the ticket for two of the image permissions, the others are fine, including the hook image. 'First real icebreaker' in the lede and 'first actual icebreaker' later. Were there others not real icebreakers? Why clarify with real? One source agrees with the hook, another, Jones - Ships in Ice seems to be saying that Abegweit undertook icebreaking, but the Voima was the first ship just for icebreaking (I think), hence it was the first 'real' one. The hook thing may be pedantic, but the OTRS image thing needs fixing, or the images removing. Secretlondon (talk) 20:39, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It all boils down to the definition of "icebreaker", a term sometimes used rather loosely here in Wikipedia, and the fact that not all icegoing ships are necessarily icebreakers. While Abegweit was the first ship equipped with two bow propellers, she was just a train ferry capable of year-round service in ice-infested waters, not unlike the cruiseferries operating in the Baltic Sea. However, icebreaker is a distinct type of ship, usually designed solely for opening channels through ice and assisting other ships instead of carrying cargo of its own. If necessary, I can (try to) explain further. Anyway, I have slightly changed the wording in the article regarding this matter — please review and comment.
 * As for the photographs, I have submitted the standard declaration of consent from the author to OTRS on 27 August (and re-sent it just now in case the original message has gone missing). I have no idea why it's taking this long. However, I would rather withdraw this application than remove the pictures. Let's see if the issue gets solved in the coming days. Tupsumato (talk) 21:40, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The OTRS issue is solved. Tupsumato (talk) 04:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg This is all fine now. ALT2 I think.Secretlondon (talk) 21:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)