Template:Did you know nominations/Flag of the Orange Order


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:04, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Flag of the Orange Order

 * ... that the Flag of the Orange Order (pictured) was adopted by the Orange Order based upon what was purportedly the personal standard of King William III at the Battle of the Boyne?
 * Reviewed: Full Fact
 * Comment: For the 12th of July (Orangeman's Day) 11th July (Eleventh Night) and would like to request that the flag be used.

Created by The C of E (talk). Self-nominated at 11:26, 31 May 2017 (UTC).


 * Yeah, that won't be controversial at all. New enough (moved from User:The C of E/oo on 31 May 2017), (barely) long enough (1,872 B (325 words) "readable prose size"), fully referenced. Image has appropriate licence. Article says purportedly based (source says "what was purported to be") which is far more WP:WEASEL-ly than the hook. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:39, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I second the reviewer's concerns and would like to add that rule #4 of the DYK eligibility criteria states that "Articles and hooks that … promote one side of an ongoing dispute should be avoided" (their bold, not mine). Although the content of this article per se appears to be neutral; however, running it on July 12 would indeed a prima facie contravention of WP:NPOV.  I strongly urge the promoter of this nom not to pander to this request for a specially timed appearance.  However, if it is (regrettably) allowed to run on the 12th, then the image of the flag should most definitely not be used. —Bloom6132 (talk) 03:22, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I have adjusted the hook so it is more in line with the source and article. I do not see how NPOV applies here plus the flag isn't in dispute. Not to mention we have had confederate flags and the flag of apartheid South Africa as the lead image before and no one complained so WP:NOTCENSORED.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 06:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks like I wasn't clear enough in my quoting: "Articles and hooks that … promote one side  of an  ongoing  dispute should be avoided".  In any case, WP:NPOV is one of the five pillars and a core content policy, so it takes primacy over "Other content policies" like WP:NOTCENSORED. —Bloom6132 (talk) 06:52, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * And I cite the above confederate flag and apartheid flag examples where no-one complained. Futhermore how is the flag itself (not the orange order as an organisation as that is not what this hook is about) in dispute? The hook isn't promoting any particular position, it is referring to a historical flag that was purportedly used at a historic battle (similar to the Template:Did you know nominations/Flag of Guernsey one did).  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 07:07, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I never knew that Apartheid was still ongoing, or that the Confederacy is still extant? —Bloom6132 (talk) 07:09, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * People still wave those flags while others don't like them.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 07:11, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Still not an ongoing dispute … —Bloom6132 (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * On a more serious note, I'm not arguing that the flag itself is in dispute, nor is the content of the article. I'm contending that its use with the image on that particular date violates WP:NPOV. —Bloom6132 (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, so would you oppose if it ran on a day other than the 12th? For example on the 11th or the 1st?  The C of E  God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 07:14, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict) Of course not. As I stated above, the article itself and its content is fine.  That's not the issue that engages WP:NPOV. —Bloom6132 (talk) 07:18, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Very well so the 11th or 1st it is then. My preference is for the 11th.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 07:20, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Though I don't see why you need those particular dates since it doesn't coincide or commemorate anything now. —Bloom6132 (talk) 07:22, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Eleventh Night or the original OS date of the Battle of the Boyne.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 07:23, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, can you strike the twelfth off the "Comment" section at the top? —Bloom6132 (talk) 07:26, 2 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Good to go then. Hawkeye7 (talk) 08:40, 2 June 2017 (UTC)