Template:Did you know nominations/Frank Ringo


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 11:11, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Frank Ringo

 * ... that Frank Ringo died after taking 40 grains of morphine, becoming the first Major League Baseball player to commit suicide?
 * Reviewed: Les Horvath

5x expanded by Cbl62 (talk). Self nominated at 20:57, 8 June 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol possible vote.svg All appears to be good with the length, expansion date, hook, and citations. I'm not sure that the Find-A-Grave citation at the end is acceptable as a reliable source, but I don't know if that affects DYK eligibility since I've been out of the loop for awhile. Another opinion on that is probably warranted. Well done! Location (talk) 05:08, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Find a Grave is cited only as a source only for the location of his grave, not for any biographical facts or for the hook. Cbl62 (talk) 06:19, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I have also now added another source that independently corroborates the burial location. Cbl62 (talk) 18:09, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Looks good to me. Location (talk) 01:50, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I have removed this from the prep area and reverted the promotion, as explained in Wikipedia talk:Did you know. Basically, there are reliable sources indicating that Ringo was not the first such suicide (Fraley Rogers may have been the first, but there may be others). Fram (talk) 10:00, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Good find. Frank Ringo is cited to www.baseball-almanac.com and the statements in Fraley Rogers and Jim McElroy (baseball) are cited to www.thedeadballera.com. Normally I would consider www.baseball-almanac.com is be the more reliable source, but the author of the second source does have a death certificate for Rogers that appears to state gunshot would to right temple: http://www.thedeadballera.com/DeathCertificates/Certificates_R/Rogers.Fraley.DC.pdf. Not sure how to deal with the primary source issue. In regards to this topic, the Baseball Almanac states: "The baseball suicide chart is, sadly enough, not complete. Some print sources have mentioned at least another four names of ballplayers who likely killed themselves, but as their obituary did not support the claim we chose not to include them." (Not that it matters much since Fraley appears to have died prior to him, but the date of death for McElroy is 7/24/1889 in the Baseball Almanac and 2/24/1889 in www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcelrji01.shtml and www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/M/Pmcelj101.htm. Again, I believe the Baseball Almanac to be the most reliable of the three.) Location (talk) 15:10, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * ALT1: ... that baseball player Frank Ringo, who was "inordinately fond" of whisky, married in January 1889 and had killed himself by April? --Storye book (talk) 13:28, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * For ALT1, 139 characters, citation #1 for baseball-player, #7 for marriage and fondness of whisky, #9 and #10 for suicide in April. --Storye book (talk) 13:28, 29 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg New reviewer needed to check ALT1, and also to check issues apparently not checked in original review, such as neutrality and close paraphrasing. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:55, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

The article still has the disputed claim about being the first suicide in its lead. This is not supported by the source which does not state this claim in these words. The source is a list of suicides in which this entry appears first but the source also says that its list is not complete. The article therefore still needs some cleanup. I myself have previously worked on a similar topic and so have some familiarity with other sources. I'll have a go at improving the article during this week. Andrew (talk) 12:08, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I adjusted the wording to address Andrew's concern.  Cbl62 (talk) 19:59, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

ALT1 good, length fine, age fine, no close paraphrasing (avoided through judicious use of quotations), neutral. Not a DYK deal-breaker but could you find a link for "caught on with" or explain it; I've seen this in other of your articles and a Google search reveals it is used as baseball jargon here rather than in its normal meaning of "became poplar with" (I know that with my previous impressive record on baseball DYKs you will be amazed that I don't know what this means, but I was hit in the head with a radioactive baseball as a child and while I gained an almost superhuman understanding of batting statistics, I lost the ability to understand jargon) Belle (talk) 08:54, 9 July 2014 (UTC)