Template:Did you know nominations/Green's Lodge Battery

Green's Lodge Battery, Rock Gun Battery

 * ... that Green's Lodge Battery was so successful during the Great Siege of Gibraltar that the British were induced to construct Rock Gun Battery above it?
 * Reviewed: Blue whale penis and St Giles' Church, Barrow
 * Comment: Double nomination

Created/expanded by ACP2011 (talk). Self nom at 21:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Per the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Did you know/GibraltarPediA Options, Gibraltar-related articles are temporarily being reviewed by two individuals. In addition to the regular DYK criteria, at least one reviewer should also indicate whether they perceive any conflict of interest or promotional concerns about the article under review.IP addresses and Victuallers are not allowed to do the reviews.


 * Review 1:
 * Symbol possible vote.svg I don't perceive any conflicts of interest or promotional concerns about these articles, Green's Lodge Battery and Rock Gun Battery. Both are new enough and long enough, both are generally well-cited throughout, and the hook is interesting. My only quibble is with the citation for the hook, which is from pages 68-69 of the 18th century A history of the late siege of Gibraltar, but with a link to page 294 of that history, which provides the legend for a plan showing locations which include 'Green's-Lodge battery' and 'The Royal battery and Rock-gun'. Turning to pages 68-69, "the great command we had over the enemy's operations" does imply the words "so successful", but those pages do not say the British "decided to establish a battery" above Green's Lodge Battery, they just refer to the placement of a single gun which was "distinguished by the name of the Rock-gun". An artillery battery is a group of ordnance, not one gun. "The Royal battery and Rock-gun" seem to be a single location, but the article goes on to claim "The emplacement was named Rock Gun Battery", which I can't find in the first source. The second source, the Discover Gibraltar Pocket Guide at issuu.com (which does not strike me as a terribly good source) does use the words "Rock Gun Battery", but it again refers to "a large cannon" at the time of the Great Siege and says a battery was established during the Second World War. So for me we are not there yet. Perhaps we could do better with a different hook and/or a different citation? Moonraker (talk) 10:55, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's maybe a peculiarity of Gibraltar that they seem to have persistently (mis?)used the term "battery" to refer to emplacements of a single gun. This seems to have been quite common - see Spur Battery for instance, and there are plenty of other examples. So I think we have to accept the terminology as, perhaps, a local usage. As for the hook, the source says: "The great command we had over the enemy's operations from Green's lodge induced the engineers to mount still higher, and endeavour to erect a battery on the summit of the northern front" and that the gun placed there was "distinguished by the name of the Rock-gun". That is clearly the Rock Gun Battery. There are plenty of other sources referring to it - see . Prioryman (talk) 12:13, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * A History of the late Siege of Gibraltar does say "endeavour to erect a battery", but that doesn't mean a battery was erected. Rather than inferring a new meaning of "battery" which isn't in the OED, could I suggest the problem could be overcome by saying in the hook "were induced to construct what became Rock Gun Battery above it"? That would leave the hook relying on the Discover Gibraltar Pocket Guide source for the name "Rock Gun Battery", and adding a better source would be an improvement. Moonraker (talk) 04:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Alt1 "... that Green's Lodge Battery was so successful during the Great Siege of Gibraltar that the British were induced to construct what became Rock Gun Battery above it?" Perhaps the second review could look at this.  Moonraker (talk) 15:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg This is ready to go with ALT2 below. 11:10, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Review 2
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Stepping into the breach, here we go... I agree the articles are new enough, long enough and well-cited. It's a pity the images are a bit poor, though I suppose that can't be helped. There's clearly no COI or promotional aspects. The sourcing for the hook is adequate, though I wouldn't say it was perfect; it's good enough for now but it would probably be worth looking for an alternative. The hook is cited and interesting though I'm not sure about the language, as "induced" seems rather archaic to me. I'd suggest an alternative as below. Prioryman (talk) 15:09, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ALT2 ... that Green's Lodge Battery was so successful during the Great Siege of Gibraltar that the British decided to construct what became Rock Gun Battery above it?
 * Yes, that's better than Alt1. Moonraker (talk) 17:37, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Great. If you're happy with this now could you add the green tick thingy to your review? Thanks. Prioryman (talk) 23:19, 13 January 2013 (UTC)