Template:Did you know nominations/Herbert L. Packer


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SST flyer 13:55, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Herbert L. Packer

 * ... that Herbert L. Packer proposed the influential crime control and due-process models of the criminal justice system?
 * ... that Herbert L. Packer proposed the influential crime control and due process models to describe the US criminal justice system?


 * Reviewed: Richard Langdon

Created by Gamaliel (talk). Self-nominated at 23:30, 9 March 2016 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg Interesting life, on good sources, offline source accepted AGF. I'm sure you'll find projects for the talk page. I am a bit uneasy about the organization: without headers, he commits suicide before getting married, interspersed with work. Perhaps split life and works? How do you feel about an infobox? (My standard phrase: some love them, some hate them, I just find them useful.) Hook: Please get the reference right behind the sentence. I normally vote for not too many links besides the one to the article (learned that from Andy who goes for exactly one link, example: ... that Ben Gunn, imprisoned 32 years for killing a friend when he was 14, earned a Master of Arts degree in peace and reconciliation?) but think that here, we need a link for both crime control and due process, which are otherwise too ambiguous. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I can't understand the hook. This one guy proposed all the crime control, and everything about due process? What "the" crim. justice system? You mean the US system?  E Eng  22:45, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response, this got lost in my watchlist until EEng#s' comment. Thanks for taking a look. I've made some adjustments to the hook and the article based on the suggestions here. Gamaliel ( talk ) 00:00, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * No problem answering late, no rush. Thank you for improvements, but in the hook - I may be wrong, it's not an area where I am familiar with terms and process - I feel that "describe" doesn't describe it as I would understand it. I wonder what Lacker would have thought about the image of 1510 wisdom I like to use. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:44, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm open to other wordings. I'm just worried leaving out 'describing' leaves the hook open to misinterpreting it as per EEng's comments above, as if the hook is saying that he created the ideas of due process, which go back to the Magna Carta maybe.   Gamaliel  ( talk ) 21:16, 6 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I will tell you what I understand, - admitting that perhaps someone better in English and more familiar with legal language should review this ;) - I understand that he proposed something, but it isn't said to whom. I understand that the two things he proposed are influential, but not for what. I feel a conflict between "influential" (for a change? a direction? a motion?) and "describe" which is neutral and static. I confess that I don't get what the hook says, - and "describe" is not even in the article. I followed the links to "crime control" and "due process" and find the first article too short, the other also not very enlightening. - Ready to learn more. Perhaps word something long, then we can reduce together? - I archived my own criminal status end of last year, DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:44, 6 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I now propose a hook based on the lead and try to find a different reviewer:
 * ALT2: ... that Herbert L. Packer proposed two models for the US criminal justice system, crime control and due process, which became influential in criminal policy debates?
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:37, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT2 - verified in source reference. Earwig shows no copyvio problems. Reads at just over 1900 characters. Submitted in time. Looks good to me.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:25, 23 April 2016 (UTC)