Template:Did you know nominations/Herbert Vivian


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 14:56, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Herbert Vivian

 * ... that before the First World War, writer Herbert Vivian stood for Parliament four times as a Jacobite, failing each time? Source: Several
 * ALT1:... that Herbert Vivian founded two newspapers, wrote a dozen books and was a strong supporter of Italian Fascism before the Second World War? Source: Several
 * ALT2:... that newspaper editor, author and journalist Herbert Vivian was an ardent Neo-Jacobite, Legitimist and ultimately Fascist? Source: Several
 * ALT3:... that Herbert Vivian, a leader of the Neo-Jacobite Revival and later a fascist, was the first journalist to interview Winston Churchill? Sources: Neo-Jacobite leader: . Fascist supporter: . First Churchill interviewer:

Created by Railfan23 (talk). Self-nominated at 08:08, 22 November 2018 (UTC).


 * ALT3 is well-sourced and certainly interesting! Might I suggest changing the word order to "... that Herbert Vivian, a leader of the Neo-Jacobite Revival and later a fascist, was the first journalist to interview Winston Churchill?" This focuses the hook on the interview, while still juxtaposing Vivian with Churchill.
 * The sources have improved but you've introduced a new reliable source issue: "Michael James Alexander Stewart" is only a little better than Laurence Gardner. Using Neo-Jacobites as sources for each other creates an echo chamber. The cited point about the organization Vivian founded doesn't seem controversial, but in these cases the nature of the source should be explained in the text. Call it out as an explicitly Neo-Jacobite source and I think it passes WP:RS, so I would pass the review..
 * Side note: you switched out the source for the police detachment "sent on the personal order of Queen Victoria" from Gardner to a contemporary source, but note that it does not describe the event the way Gardner described it. (It attributes Gladstone, not Victoria, and says the wreath-laying was eventually permitted.) The text must change when the supporting source changes, of course. I took a quick look at scholarly sources and came across an article about Vivian in Serbia you might find interesting. Kim Post (talk) 07:54, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, Kim. I definitely agree that your word order for ALT3 is better, and I've changed it above. Thanks for pointing out the issues with Michel Roger Lafosse - I should have checked into him further. I've added a note on the citation, and added two contemporary sources which corroborate the factual details. Hopefully this suffices. I'm happy to take out the Lafosse source, but I do think it has some value as a contemporary source, with the disclaimer on the citation. I also went back to sources and re-wrote the section about the wreath-laying. If you say nothing else about Vivian, he was a very good self-publicist! Thanks for all the help with the article. Railfan23 (talk) 23:30, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg With all questions resolved the article is ready for promotion. Kim Post (talk)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg With all questions resolved the article is ready for promotion. Kim Post (talk)