Template:Did you know nominations/Herr Gott, dich loben wir, BWV 16

Herr Gott, dich loben wir, BWV 16

 * ... that Bach's cantata for New Year's Day, Herr Gott, dich loben wir, BWV 16, opens with Luther's German Te Deum and combines elements of chorus and bass aria in one movement?
 * Reviewed: Doctor Ox's Experiment (opera)

Created/expanded by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self nom at 15:09, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Suggested for 1 January, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:10, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg article's length, date and sourcing are fine and no evidence of plagiarism/copyvio (AGF for offline source). The hook is interesting and short enough. The only issue is the hook fact, which isn't explicitly supported by the cited sources as far as I can see (and the cite is not at the end of the relevant sentence). Mikenorton (talk) 16:26, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * (ec) The Te Deum part is supported by Gardiner (#3) "This is an ebullient setting of the first four lines of Luther’s German Te Deum", also the other part "The soloist tees up for an explosive, rumbustious choral dialogue ‘Let us rejoice, let us be glad’ (No.3). Compared with the grand hymns of thanks that habitually open his more festive cantatas or parts of the Christmas Oratorio this is really no more than a miniature. But what a punch it packs in its seventy bars! No need here for an instrumental prelude; instead the combined basses lead off with a fanfare. Their whoops of delight are immediately answered by the other voices and a tantivy for the horn. In the middle section of this so-called ‘aria’ (in free da capo structure) the solo bass now steps forward like some Cantor exhorting the people in the Temple ..." - Dürr says it simpler but in German. You are welcome to find a better wording. Thank you so much for good copy-editing! - I will go and put the ref behind every sentence. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:41, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The hook suggests (I think) that combining the chorus and aria in this way is unusual - it's that part that I don't see in the Gardiner ref. Mikenorton (talk) 16:53, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's highly unusual, typically for Bach a chorus is a chorus, an aria is sung by one or rarely two people. Gardiner puts it in the term so-called ‘aria’. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:14, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm aware that it is unusual (there's something similar in the Matthew Passion as I recall), but I don't think that the "so-called 'aria'" makes that explicit. I'll try to come up with an alternative. Mikenorton (talk) 17:23, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There are movements in the Passion which combine solo and chorus. But this is different as it is chorus and a bit solo in one part, solo and a bit chorus in the middle section. I can't word it in 200 chars, but I don't know any other movement in Bach like this so far. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:34, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Would it help to include this source? It says "And this is exactly what we discover in the third movement, an unusual and imaginative combination of aria and chorus." Adding it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg that's fine. Sorry to make you work so hard. Mikenorton (talk) 19:53, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, no "sorry" needed, I liked the discussion! What do you think of using it then:
 * ALT1: ... that Bach's cantata for New Year's Day, Herr Gott, dich loben wir, BWV 16, opens with Luther's German Te Deum and contains "an unusual and imaginative combination of aria and chorus"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:02, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg for the ALT1 hook as well. Mikenorton (talk) 23:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)