Template:Did you know nominations/Homage to Cézanne


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:06, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Homage to Cézanne

 * ... that Homage to Cézanne (pictured) depicts key figures in the secret brotherhood of the Nabis?
 * Reviewed: Intermediate School 318

Created by Philafrenzy (talk), Edwardx (talk). Nominated by Edwardx (talk) at 17:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol voting keep.svg Article is new enough, long enough, and complies with policy. Online ref #5 mentions the Nabis, but doesn't say it was secret (prehaps implies it though); thus offline ref #4 accepted in good faith to support the "secret" aspect.  Hook is thus backed by an inline citation and is sufficiently interesting.  Image is free, but perhaps not too clear at 100px so may or may not be used at promoters discretion. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:17, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Added online cite for "secret brotherhood". Philafrenzy (talk) 11:06, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg Pulling from prep for further attention before this goes to the queue. The sentence in the article body that states that these men were the key figures in the Nabis is not a complete English sentence ("Altogether, many of the key figures from the secret brotherhood of the Nabis, for whom Gauguin was the principal mentor"), and it's not entirely clear what verb it was supposed to include. Moreover, I am not convinced that the hook fact is truly supported by the sources cited where it appears in the article; source #2 indicates that the subjects were "part of the Nabi generation" and source #6 mentions Gauguin, Vuillard, and Bonnard in connection with "Nabis", but does not indicate that they were "key figures." (What does offline source #5 say?) --Orlady (talk) 12:08, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I copyedited the sentence in question to "Altogether, they represent many of the key..." and it was reverted back to the original "Altogether, many of the key..." for some reason - I suppose because I did not guess what it was supposed to mean correctly. This sentence needs fixed, but due to the problems with the hook expressed at WT:DYK ("The Nabis were started as a 'secret society', but were quite public by 1890-1891, and claiming that the 1900 picture 'depicts key figures in the secret brotherhood' is thus highly misleading"), I suggest a new fact is chosen. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:17, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Alt1 ... that in the 1900 painting Homage to Cézanne (pictured) Paul Gauguin was depicted in absentia by a painting that he had once owned as he had already left for Tahiti? Philafrenzy (talk) 21:59, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg I'm taking the first sentence of the 8 July initial review of the article on trust. To expand on the "complies with policy" bit, and to avoid delay later: the article text is objective, neutral and fully referenced. QPQ done. No problems with disambig links or with access to external links. Issues: (1) Re sources of copyvio and close paraphrasing: "vollard behind the easel maurice denis paul ranson ker xavier roussel pierre bonnard (citation #2)""maurice denis has assembled a group of friends artists and critics (citation #2)" (2) ALT1 checks out with online citations #2 and #4, except for "as he had already left for Tahiti". Could we have a citation for that in the article please? (This reliable source says he left in 1891.) (3) Note re the ungrammatical sentence: I believe that a previous editor of the article thought (mistakenly) that "altogether" means all together or depicted together. Of course "altogether" really means entirely, absolutely, in total, etc. So it would make sense to edit the sentence to begin something like, "Depicted together are many ..." (we can't say all together because the rest of the sentence says there are many of the figures, i.e. not all). When the above issues 1-3 are resolved, this nom should be OK. --Storye book (talk) 12:33, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * He made several trips abroad but left permanently in 1895. Online ref now included. Assembled changed to gathered. I don't believe there is any practical way of changing the list of the order in which they are standing, unless you want it right to left instead of left to right. If so, you will have to do it yourself! Should be OK now?Philafrenzy (talk) 18:00, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Thank you, Philafrenzy. ALT1 now checks out fully with online citations #2, #4 and #5. All issues resolved. Good to go with ALT1. --Storye book (talk) 18:31, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree that the substance of the ALT1 hook is great, but the wording needs work. For example, the multiple meanings of the preposition "by" result in the phrase "was depicted in absentia by a painting" being hopelessly ambiguous. Another issue is that the article says Gaugin had gone to the South Seas (it doesn't name Tahiti). Let's try to reword this. Here's a suggestion:
 * Alt1A ... that the 1900 painting Homage to Cézanne (pictured) depicts Paul Gauguin -- in absentia because he had left France for the South Seas -- next to a painting that he had once owned? --Orlady (talk) 19:12, 10 July 2014 (UTC) Striking that hook because Philafrenzy's proposed hook has emphasized just how confusing the previous wording was. (I had earlier had the impression that Gaugin wasn't in the painting, but comments here had caused me to think that he was in it after all.) --Orlady (talk) 20:35, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Alt1B ... that in the 1900 painting Homage to Cézanne (pictured) Paul Gauguin was represented in absentia by a painting that he had once owned? Philafrenzy Gauguin is not in the picture. (talk) 19:50, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Thank you, Orlady and Philafrenzy. I have struck ALT1 because it is superseded by the re-worded version, ALTB. Good to go with ALT1B which checks out with online citations #2, #4 and #5. --Storye book (talk) 07:46, 11 July 2014 (UTC)