Template:Did you know nominations/House of Flavors


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SST  flyer  10:04, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

ALT5 promoted with image

House of Flavors

 * ... that House of Flavors’ claim to fame is creating the midwestern United States ice cream favorite - Blue Moon (pictured)?


 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Humira Saqib

Created by Doug Coldwell (talk). Self-nominated at 11:00, 7 June 2016 (UTC).


 * Symbol possible vote.svg Long enough, new enough, QPQ done. The hook is problematic as it's making a priority claim that's sourced to a local newspaper article on the venue, which isn't reliable for this kind of claim.  Also, there is widespread close paraphrasing of Ref. 5 which needs to be addressed.  The prose tends to sound promotional at times; unencyclopedic details should be omitted. Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 05:24, 8 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for review. Copy edited the article for improvements. Here are alternate hooks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:15, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * ALT1 - ... that the House of Flavors (their ice cream shown) makes 24 million gallons of ice cream each year, enough to fill 36 Olympic-size swimming pools?
 * ALT2 - ... that the House of Flavors (their ice cream shown) makes 24 million gallons of ice cream each year in its 100,000 square-foot facility?
 * I am withdrawing my original hook.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:49, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg It's an improvement, but the Production section and new section on the record attempt are gratuitously long and still sound borderline promotional. Most of what's in the Production section seems pretty typical of anyone who makes ice cream.  Is there something notably different about their process?  The section on the record is pretty much a rehash of everything that's in the are article, just in a different order.  It has embellishments that aren't in the source.  Again, it's cited to a local newspaper, which isn't the most reliable source.  Something like this deserves maybe two or three sentences, not four paragraphs.
 * There's still close paraphrasing of the source I mentioned above. Example:
 * Article: Neal's son (Bob Jr.) was attending Michigan State University at the time. He graduated in 1961 with a degree related to the dairy industry. He then joined as a partner with his father and became the manager of the production factory. The original packaging plant in Ludington then remodeled to a state-of-the-art facility. After the updating of the equipment it had a larger variety of ice cream flavors and could produce up to 600 gallons an hour.
 * Source: In 1961 Bob Neal Jr. graduated from M.S.U. with a degree in Dairy Technology and rejoined his father as a partner and plant manager of Park Dairy. At this time Park Dairy began to remodel the old bottling plant and turned it into a modern ice cream production plant capable of producing 600 gallons of ice cream an hour and in a greater variety of flavors.
 * Pay close attention to WP:CLOP. You need to write in your own words and make decisions about what details to include.  You can't just repeat all the same details from the source while changing a few words and putting things in a different order.
 * Also, be careful about putting the correct references after each block of text. You had several missing and misplaced citations.
 * Lastly, for the hook, it's okay to say that this company is one of many to claim to have invented Blue Moon ice cream; I think that's more interesting than the ALTs you've provided above. Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 09:58, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the additional review and pointers. Copy edited the article accordingly and provided additional references that were not local. Here are a few alternate hooks.
 * ALT3 ... that the House of Flavors is one of several claiming to have created the midwestern United States ice cream favorite - Blue Moon (pictured)?
 * ALT3a ... that the House of Flavors' contribution to ice cream tradition is the secret formula "Blue Moon" flavor (pictured) that they have been making since 1935?


 * ALT4 ... that the House of Flavors constructed in June of 2016 an ice cream dessert (preparation pictured) that was 2970 feet long in an attempt to break the existing world record?
 * ALT5 ... that the House of Flavors' signature ice cream is the secret formula "Blue Moon" flavor (pictured) that they have been making available to their customers since 1935?
 * Will this work for a green tick? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:20, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Submitting ALT5 and withdrawing ALT3 & ALT3a. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:40, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg The first two paragraphs of "Operations" are close paraphrases of Refs. 8 and 14, respectively. This is the third time I've had to bring this up; I really shouldn't have to point out every instance of close paraphrasing in the article.  You should be able to identify and remove it yourself. Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 02:34, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The copyvio checker I use to double check things out is Earwig and it shows 0.0%.
 * It show 0.0% for Ref 8 of Our History here.
 * It show 0.0% for Ref 14 of WZZM here.
 * I'm not sure which words you are talking about. Maybe you can point them out. I am withdrawing ALT1 and ALT2.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:12, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * You could check out Earwig against your articles that you have been editing lately to verify it is working correctly, like for I Will Possess Your Heart which are these readings.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:10, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Carl Edgar Myers is a 30K character article I recently created and turned into a GA and it reads 0.0% for Earwig. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:23, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If you will notice that I created 98.5% of the text for the Carl Edgar Myer article. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:29, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * You can't blindly rely on automated tools. Earwig is good at detecting direct copy-paste, but it's spotty at detecting close paraphrasing, which often must be checked manually.  We really don't want close paraphrasing in any article that's appearing on the Main Page.  Conversely, for I Will Possess Your Heart, Earwig is detecting direct quotes which are marked as such, which are within policy.
 * Anyway, you just need to deal with those two paragraphs and this will pass. Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 00:55, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with you that close paraphrasing is not wanted on the Main Page. I have gone through line by line on those two paragraphs and my experience of over 400 Did You Know articles tells me that these are written correctly. I have had 97% of all the articles I have ever written over the last 10 years become a Did You Know and that experience tells me that this article is ready for DYK. Apparently you are concerned with certain words that you don't like. Tell me what those are and I will either delete them or rewrite them. Otherwise it looks like you are just wanting fail the article based on your wording of you just need to deal with those two paragraphs with no specifics.
 * OR, a second choice is that you can dismiss yourself from reviewing this article and put up the "New Reviewer" request icon. Then we could just wait for another reviewer to come by to look it over that has no bias one way or the other.
 * OR, a third choice is that you can request from the List of Wikipedians by number of DYKs any editor that has more DYKs than I do (over 432) to look it over.
 * Or, a fourth choice is that you can request from any administrator that regularly works the DYK process to look it over.
 * One of those choices should be done to have this DYK nomination continue and not be stalled.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:19, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * My experience of creating over 400 articles and 432 DYK articles (some multi-article hooks and some co-authored with librarians from the Library of Congress) tells me this article qualifies as a Did You Know article. I think we should get an experienced editor to look over House of Flavors. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:36, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Article issues have been resolved and is ready for a new review from a new reviewer.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:05, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg This article is new enough and long enough. I prefer ALT5 which has a suitably licensed image and a hook with inline citation. The article is neutral and I do not believe it has any remaining policy issues. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:33, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Given that the remaining issues with those last two paragraphs are borderline, I won't push on this any longer. Thank you for cleaning up the earlier issues I raised.  Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 19:06, 25 June 2016 (UTC)