Template:Did you know nominations/InterContinental Geneva

InterContinental Geneva

 * ... that the architecture and design of the InterContinental Geneva (pictured) is a dynamic fusion of "historical styles and classic modernism"?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Adelaide Crescent

Created by Dr. Blofeld (talk), Nvvchar (talk), Rosiestep (talk). Nominated by Nvvchar (talk) at 04:45, 27 September 2013 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg Article creation date and length okay. Hook length okay.  But the hook text includes an unattributed quote - who is saying this? - in the hook, it would be better to paraphrase.  The hook fact is sourced, but not very helpful - which historical styles are incorporated?  And I have to say, the article itself is not ready for the main page.  It has a contraction ("isn't").  This sequence - "The hotel was built in 1964.[4] The hotel underwent a total renovation." - is jolting - when was the renovation?  The next sentence has a closing quote without an opening one.  The tone throughout is a little too gushing, which comes from the Yee source.  Try finding some newspaper reviews or travel books that talk about the hotel.  The top photo is confusing - which of these buildings (including the one the photographer is in) is the hotel?  Gorbachev and Reagan need full names and positions, and there is no such person as George Bush, Senior (try George H. W. Bush).  The article should really have an infobox; see Infobox hotel and some articles that use it.   Wasted Time R (talk) 13:35, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Will address issues referred above shortly. Trying to find new references.-- Nvvchar . 04:38, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * ^I have fixed the infobox with the img but the photographer has not mentioned the exact location of the hotel in the picture. It may be better to delete the img from the hook. I have done some c/e but I am unable to find any alternate references to the book reference of Yee source (I used it as it is a book). I am suggesting the following Alt 1 Hook without the img.-- Nvvchar . 10:21, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Alt 1 hook: ... that on 9 May 1977 Hafez al-Assad of Syria and Jimmy Carter met at the InterContinental Geneva to discuss the Arab-Israeli conflict and deadlocked Israeli–Syrian peace talks?


 * Symbol possible vote.svg I just fixed minor issues in ALT1 and in the article itself, but the rest still need to be taken care of (such as Gorbachev and Reagan). Using the icon that seems to better fit the issues remaining to be dealt with. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * This hook is totally dull because it mentions the hotel only in an incidental way. Better would be to talk about how the hotel's location and stature has made it the site of several summits and meetings of world leaders.  Also, the text was changed to say "The hotel, which was built in 1964,[4] has undergone renovation in recent years."  This is a big no-no per WP:RELTIME - ten or twenty years from now, recent won't be recent anymore.  It's much better to find out when the renovations were done and put that date in the article.  This page for instance says they were finished in April 2005 and cost €22 million.   Wasted Time R (talk) 11:54, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the review. I made the change regarding the 2005 renovation. Here's ALT2: ... that the InterContinental Geneva (pictured) location and stature have made it the site of several summits and meetings of world leaders? --Rosiestep (talk) 13:53, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg Looking over the article, it appears that most of the concerns in the above DYK reviews were addressed. Full names were added for world leaders, the tone is not promotional, and the page is sourced to travel books in addition to the interior designer's page. The article is new enough, long enough, well-referenced, and no close paraphrasing seen in sources. QPQ done. I would suggest combining Rosiestep's ALT2 with Wasted Time's suggestion, as follows:
 * ALT3: ... that the 5-star InterContinental Geneva is far from the shores of Lake Geneva but close to UN headquarters, making it the choice of world leaders and international conferences? Yoninah (talk) 21:09, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I like ALT3! --Rosiestep (talk) 00:35, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * (ec)I agree that the article is okay to go up now and ALT3 is better than the ones before it. But it's only one mile from the lake, so instead of "is far from" I would say something like "is away from". Wasted Time R (talk) 00:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ALT3a: ... that the 5-star InterContinental Geneva is 1 mi from the shores of Lake Geneva but a three-minute walk from UN headquarters, making it the choice of world leaders and international conferences? Yoninah (talk) 11:32, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That's fine. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:14, 1 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I hate to be a party pooper, but ALT3a is 204 characters, above the maximum allowable. (Since there already was an ALT3, I changed the second one to ALT3a for clarity.) The original ALT3 was 176 characters. Also, the three-minute fact is not inline cited by the end of its sentence. (I know it makes the length even worse, but shouldn't "5-star" be "five-star" according to WP:MOSNUM? BlueMoonset (talk) 19:06, 1 November 2013 (UTC)


 * All these distances distract from the hotel itself, so how about just this (184 characters):
 * ALT3b: ... that the five-star InterContinental Geneva is away from the shores of Lake Geneva but close to UN headquarters, making it the choice of world leaders and international conferences? Wasted Time R (talk) 00:33, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It's fine. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:07, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm...I suggested ALT3 and Wasted Time tweaked it. Now who will approve the hook? BlueMoonset, can you sign this one off? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 18:04, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm frankly uncomfortable with signing off on it, even if it makes me a repeat party pooper. Now that I look more closely at the wording, the problem is both the hook's "making it the choice" and its equivalent in the article, "Due to its proximity to the UN headquarters": neither is confirmed by an actual source, but appears to be a conclusion on the part of the article—likely, I'll admit, but no secondary source makes it, certainly not FN4, which only sources the officials listed (and even then it's unclear that the meeting Ross and Clinton attended was at the InterContinental, or if it was elsewhere with Ross's hotel room at the IC), and thus the conclusion seems either synthesis or original research so far as Wikipedia is concerned. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:03, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The citation is found in ft1, which appears at the end of the sentence corresponding to the hook. The quote from Yee states: "Interestingly, being one mile from the lake yet steps from the European headquarters of the United Nations has not deterred such VIPs as Sophia Loren, Kofi Annan, Roger Federer and hundreds of heads of state from checking into the InterContinental Geneve". Yoninah (talk) 19:15, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Looking at this and other refs more closely, I see your point, BlueMoonset. No one is really connecting the proximity of the UN headquarters with staying at the InterContinental. How about this alt, based on a new ref:
 * ALT4: ... that the guest list at the five-star InterContinental Geneva includes 400 heads of state and nearly 4000 government ministers? Yoninah (talk) 19:28, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm against ALT4, as it relies upon figures from a primary source - the hotel's own press document. Those are the kind of figures that can easily get inflated by a self-involved source. I think the Yee source supports ALT3b for world leaders (if not Loren and Federer), and you could take out the "and international conferences" part.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:04, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Wasted Time R, I think I've made it clear that ALT3b is not supported in the "making it the choice" clause: that part is not backed up by Yee or any other source that I saw. I've just removed the equally unsupported "Due to its proximity" claim from the article, and I've struck the earlier hooks. I see your point on ALT4's relying on primary sourcing; how about a slightly different approach:
 * ALT5: ... that the five-star InterContinental Geneva, near the UN European headquarters, was the site of a 1985 summit between Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev?
 * I think this is reasonably interesting, puts the hotel first, and presents three supported facts. (While the "five-star" part is sourced to the hotel, it's also available from FN9, and I'm sure could be found other places if necessary.) BlueMoonset (talk) 15:20, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Subsequent thought: might it be good to add "in Switzerland" after "UN headquarters" to be absolutely clear that this is not the main UN headquarters in New York and an oddly named New York hotel? BlueMoonset (talk) 15:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Thank you, BlueMoonset, for rescuing this drawn-out discussion. I tweaked the link to the UN headquarters. I think that "InterContinental Geneva" tells you it's not in New York. Hook ref verified. ALT5 is good to go. Yoninah (talk) 16:17, 4 November 2013 (UTC)