Template:Did you know nominations/Ioannis Velissariou

Ioannis Velissariou
Created/expanded by Alexikoua (talk). Self nom at 21:24, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ... that Greek Army officer, Ioannis Velissariou (pictured), is considered as one of the most important personalities in the military history of modern Greece?
 * Reviewed: Cyclotosaurus.Alexikoua (talk) 20:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * There are several issues:
 * I generally don't really care for hooks that say something like "...that X is famous" or "...that X is important", mostly because those are just really vague concepts.
 * Some close paraphrasing: Article: "He is revered as one of the most important personalities in the military history of modern Greece", source: "He is revered as one of the most important personalities of Military History in Modern Greece."
 * The article needs some copyediting.--Carabinieri (talk) 22:40, 13 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg I've left a message to alert the creator to the concerns. I also note that this nominator owes a quid pro quo review of another DYK nomination. Here's a possible hook:
 * ALT1 ... that when Ottoman commander Esad Pasha surrendered after the 1913 Battle of Bizani, Greek Army officer Ioannis Velissariou (pictured) personally led the Ottoman delegation to Greek headquarters? --Orlady (talk) 13:12, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with the alternative hook.Alexikoua (talk) 19:32, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg I disambiguated Esad Pasha to Mehmet Esat Bülkat both in ALT1 and in the article. I also did a little other cleanup on the article, but I don't understand the following, from the last paragraph, at all: "the battalion of Velissariou, together with other two of the 1/38 Evzone Regiment, fought in height 1378, 20 kilometres (12 mi) northeast of Simitli." The ref is in Greek so that wasn't any help in deciphering the meaning. M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  22:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing the disambiguation, Mandarax. I've also spent some time puzzling over this article. It's clear to me that this man is a major military hero in Greek history, so Wikipedia should have a good article about him, but the language barrier is a problem. I was inspired to Google the string "Ioannis Velissariou 1378" (not in quotes) and I found some good content. Based on what I found, I have the impression that "1378" is the identifier given by the Army to a particular hill or hillock (think "Hill 1378"). Considering how vague this is, I think it would be best for the article not to refer to "1378".
 * I did find another fairly solid-looking English-language biography of Velissariou at http://www.army.gr/html/GR_Army/sxoles/spz/biografiko_en.html (apparently an official Greek army website) plus some pages at http://andronianoi.ucoz.com/news/2009-04-27-773 and http://greekturkish.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=553 that seem informative, but probably are not WP:RS.
 * Another fact in the article that I am concerned about is his birthplace. The article states that he was born in Ploesti, Romania, citing a Greek-language source. Due to font problems, I cannot translate that source, but by transliterating, I do see that the second page of the file refers to Ploesti in connection with 26 November 1861. Several other sources, however, identify his birthplace as Kymi (also rendered as Kimi) in Evia (also rendered as Euboea), or Κύμη Εύβοιας in Greek. Because I don't find any indication that Kymi, Evia, has any relationship to Ploesti, I am concerned about the verifiability of other parts of the article. --Orlady (talk) 02:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly, 1378 is the identifier given by the Army. As for his birthplace, he was born in Ploesti, however because his parents were not natives of Ploesti, but originated from Kymi, it's sometimes mentioned that he comes from there too.Alexikoua (talk) 12:52, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Those statements make sense. Let's see how we can resolve the confusion in the article:
 * The problem with the "1378" was mostly with the word "height". Although the English word can mean a "high place", that is a minor meaning of the word. Most often it refers to a measurement or quantity. The Wikipedia article Second Balkan War cites this search-result URL that points to a book that calls it "Summit 1378," which I propose we use in the Velissariou article. (Other English words that sometimes show up in this context "hill," "promontory", "ridge", and "mountain.")
 * As for the place of birth, is there a source that indicates that he was born in Ploesti to Greek parents who were from Kymi, Evia? This Greek-language source mentions the Ploesti birthplace and appears to tell about his early life. The first paragraph refers to Euboea; does this source indicate that his roots were there? If there is a source that indicates both that he was born in Ploesti and that his parents were from Euboea/Evia, that could be stated in this article (and sourced!) and a footnote could indicate that some other sources give the home of his parents in Kymi, Evia, as his native place. --Orlady (talk) 16:06, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * About '1378', the specific source is mostly using the term "summit", although in one case it prefers to name it "hill 1378" []. So whether summit of hill, will be ok I believe.
 * According to this, [] (p. 8 in Greek), it mentions that he was born in Ploesti Rumania, by parents that had moved from Evia. He lived in Ploesti during schoolyears until 16.Alexikoua (talk) 12:15, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting keep.svg Works for me (and not just on good faith; what I could discern of the source led me to think it said he was in Romania until age 16). Article wording is no longer overly close to the sources. Let's go forward with ALT1. --Orlady (talk) 02:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)