Template:Did you know nominations/Jeong Seon


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 11:19, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Jeong Seon

 * ... that Jeong Seon (self-portrait pictured), one of the most famous Korean painters, specialized in landscape paintings?
 * Reviewed: Student assignment (ESL) for my Wikipedia course, I think the quality is good enough to be featured in our DYK column? I realize the article fails the "five days" window, but the student misunderstood my advice to start in the sandbox and started to work directly in the emainspace; by the time I caught it her project was too advanced to abandon. I hope we can WP:IAR the time limit and review this as an assignment finished now? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 15:54, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

5x expanded by Youkseo (talk). Nominated by Piotrus (talk) at 15:54, 23 December 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol confirmed.svg the look of the article before expansion for reference. The expansion ended on 22 December 2014, so I suggest this "New" enough. 5x began on November 17, 2014. I am ignoring the scriptural definition of "New" and "within the past seven days". Size: 8638 B. Image is good. Hook checks out with online ref. Copyvio checked. The article can be a serious WP:GAN candidate. Good work, Youkseo. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus, I suggest a painting of the artist, may look better in the hook. Redtigerxyz  Talk 13:59, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg QPQ needed. How'd you feel about the painting suggestion? Fuebaey (talk) 19:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll do QPQ soon, but first I'd like to ping User:Yoninah and ask him if this entry has any copuvio issues - apparently I missed them in another of my students major projects, so I'd like to get his 2nd opinion here. I am fine with any painting of his, and I agree that one may be better. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 14:38, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Yes, there is verbatim copying, as well as line-by-line sentence structure copyvios:
 * Source (Korea Times): Unlike abstract paintings that featured portraits of nature and character sketches, he depicted mountains and streams with fine, bold strokes in a realistic composition.
 * Article: Unlike abstract paintings that featured portraits of nature and character sketches, his works depict mountains and streams with fine, bold strokes in realistic compositions.
 * Source: But by the end of the decade, under the influence of the Sirhak movement, he had eschewed the Chinese literari tradition of idealised landscapes and evolved a novel style of his own based on real Korean mountain locations
 * Article: By the end of the decade, under the influence of the Sirhak movement, Jeong moved away from the Chinese literati tradition of idealised landscapes. Based on real Korean mountain locations, he evolved a novel style of his own.
 * Source: One of his works, 〈Geumganjeondo(金剛全圖, General View of Kumgang Mountain)〉, in Hoam Museum, well represents the creative combination of traditional Neo-Confucianism(性理學) and the newly faced Western Astronomy. In particular, the creative round-shape composition resembling a planet reflects the effect of Taegeukron(太極論; the theory of Great Absolute in Chinese philosophy) and Eumyangron(陰陽論; the theory of positive and negative in Chinese philosophy) of traditional Zhou-I(周易), but on the other hand, it also reflects the effect of Western astronomy. This painting has been interpreted to reflect various political meanings based on Sangsuyeokhak(象數易學; Science of Divination using images and numbers) in winter, 1734, when he was 59 years of age, with the assumption that the upper right poem on a painting must have been Gyeomje(謙齋)"s own poem. However, it is thought that this poem was a poem of appreciation written by one who owned it, while the painting was made in 1740"s when he was on his 70"s, at his latter part of his life, to show abstract, ideological, and ideal styles.
 * Article: One of his works, Geumgangjeondo (金剛全圖, 금강전도; General View of Kumgang Mountain), in the Hoam Museum, represents the combination of traditional Neo-Confucianism and the newly faced Western Astronomy. The creative round-shape composition reflects the effect of Taegeukron (太極論; the theory of Great Absolute in Chinese philosophy) and Eumyangron (陰陽論; the theory of positive and negative in Chinese philosophy) of traditional Zhou-I, as well as the effect of Western astronomy. This painting has been interpreted to reflect various political meanings based on Sangsuyeokhak (象數易學; Science of Divination using images and numbers). In the winter of 1734, when he was 59 years of age, with the assumption that the upper right poem on a painting must have been Gyeomje's own poem. This poem was one of appreciation written by one who owned it. The painting was made in 1740s when he was on his seventies, at the latter part of his life, to show abstract, ideological, and ideal styles
 * Source: His style is characterised by strong areas of dark and light, with overlying layers of ink wash and forceful, sweeping lines. His forests have a heavy, brooding atmosphere, dramatically and mercifully lightened by patches of mist and bisected by rushing waterfalls. Bold shapes of ponderous granite outcrops are sharply interrupted by trees simply yet effectively constructed of vertical trunks and horizontal, axe-cut branch systems. Vegetation grows from dots chopped onto hillsides, a technique adapted perhaps from acquaintance with the rounder dotted style of the great Chinese painter Mi Fei (1052-1107). ... It was a style that would influence generations of literati and folk artists alike, and become a source of pride to Korean nationalists in future centuries.
 * Article: His work is characterised by areas of dark and light with layers of ink wash and lines. The forests have heavy atmosphere lightened by mist and waterfalls. Bold shapes of heavy granite outcrops are interrupted by trees, made up of vertical trunks and horizontal branch systems. Vegetation is made from dots, a technique adapted from acquaintance with the rounder dotted style of the Chinese painter Mi Fei (1052-1107). This style would influence generations of literati and folk artists, becoming evidence of pride to Korean nationalists in future centuries (Here the sentence structure is parallel and words were taken out here and there, making the description rather nonsensical)
 * I cannot open the PDF in footnote 10; I suspect you'll find copyvios there, too.
 * The article also needs English-language copyediting, especially in the third paragraph under Biography (what is the beginning of this paragraph talking about, anyway?), third and fourth paragraphs under Significance, and fourth paragraph under Style. The breathless prose in the first paragraph under Style should be either toned down or deleted entirely.
 * The concept of "true-view" landscape painting is all over the place. I think it should be explained in its own section at the beginning, and then let the rest of the article talk about the painter. Yoninah (talk) 23:15, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Sigh. This is really depressing. I have emailed the student in question. If nothing happens over the next few days, I guess we will have to delete the above sections (through I'll see if I can summarize them). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:22, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * As the student wouldn't even bother replying to me (the grades are out, so I guess they have little reason to care of their instructors) I have c/e the highlighted problems myself (I guess it makes me the article co-author now). Let me know if this is not sufficient. I can open, so let me know if you need me to send you a copy. Regarding the true-view concept, it appears in other related Wikipedia articles about Korean art, so it seems to me it is a notable topic to be created (I red linked it per WP:RED for now). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  14:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I opened that source and found all the same copying as in the original article. Rather than try to clean it up, I just deleted all the paragraphs copied from that source. As I said above, a Background section on true-view painting would be appropriate, but its absence will not hold up this DYK nom. IAR on the date. Long enough, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. The hook, however, is rather weak. Perhaps you could suggest something with "true-view" in it? The image is PD, but the caption says it's "believed to be a self-portrait", so the words in parenthesis in the hook need to be adjusted. Alternately, one of the many images in the article could be used for the hook. Lastly, a QPQ is needed on your part, Piotrus. Yoninah (talk) 16:34, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * How about ALT1 below? Re: image, I am fine with using another, but I am having a hard time choosing which one would be best for DYK. QPQ done at Template:Did you know nominations/John S. Parsons. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 22:35, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * ALT1: ... that Jeong Seon (likely self-portrait pictured), one of the most famous Korean painters, introduced the "true-view" style of landscape painting?
 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT1 works for me. Hook ref verified and cited inline. I tweaked the hook slightly. The "pictured" text works, too. QPQ done. ALT1 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 22:45, 19 January 2015 (UTC)