Template:Did you know nominations/Joigny coach crash


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Montanabw (talk) 04:04, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Joigny coach crash

 * ... that families of the victims of the coach accident in France were suggested by the court they could sue the government because of delays it took to bring the case to court?

:* ALT2:... that one of those killed on the coach accident in France, took up the trip on the coach because her fear of air flight?
 * ALT3: ... that a coach crashed at over 20mph its speed limit, killing 11 passengers, months before it became compulsory for all buses to be fitted with speed limiters?
 * ALT4: ... that the owner of the coach who was involved in a fatal accident in France, killing 11 passengers, had been in business for less than two months?
 * ALT5: ... that the delays from legal proceedings surrounding the Joigny coach crash in France were such that the prosecutor told the families of victims that they could seek compensation from the government?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Abandon the Old in Tokyo
 * Comment: Please reserve for 3 June (date of the accident)

I would had preferred ALT2 though the source for it appears to be lost (the article was first created in 2009 and the source was still extant (source: )). Can anybody please suggest to me is there a way I can access the news archives, thanks. Created by Donnie Park (talk). Self-nominated at 15:15, 21 April 2016 (UTC).


 * Symbol possible vote.svg I'm sorry, but there are some problems here. The article is new enough and long enough, but it needs a copyedit for formatting, grammar, and tense. The infobox puts the date of crash as 1980; it should be 1990. The central claim in the lead, that this was the "longest legal case in France" isn't supported by the BBC article, which called it "one of the longest-running cases in French legal history," a much weaker claim. The article closely paraphrases Hansard in several cases (cf ) and I wonder if we should rely on Cecil Parkinson's speech from June, two days after the crash, when legal proceedings weren't resolved until 2006. The first hook isn't supported by the text nor the citation; the BBC doesn't say who made the suggestion but it doesn't appear to have been the court itself. ALT1, as I indicated, isn't supported by the text, nor is ALT2 (as you noted). Mackensen (talk) 12:57, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I already did as much as I could to resolve the paraphrasing issues; for other issues, the article had already been submitted for WP:GOCE. It will be great if we rely on his speech but will do so later on since I feel I'm running out of decent hooks. Donnie Park (talk) 13:44, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I hope I have resolved whatever I was requested to resolve in the talk page. I managed to get it down from 12% to 4.8%, what do you think. Donnie Park (talk) 23:54, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg I think we're there now, except for a hook. I'm going to put forward ALT5 as a reworking on the original hook, making it clear that it was the prosecutor who made the suggestion. Mackensen (talk) 11:23, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Returned from prep. ALT5 hook was written and approved by the reviewer, which is not allowed per Rule H2. The change from "the court" to "the prosecutor" is something that should be checked by another reviewer. ALT5 is also uninteresting, IMO; the 13-year delay to try the driver is far more hooky, as are any of the other hooks proposed by the nominator. Yoninah (talk) 23:47, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg Here is an alt suggestion:
 * ALT6: ... that the driver of a speeding coach that crashed in Joigny, France, killing 11, was finally tried 13 years after the incident? Yoninah (talk) 00:00, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg I think ALT6 is decent hook and it's verifiable. I've duplicated a citation to the first sentence of the "Legal proceedings" paragraph so that criteria 3a is satisfied. Note that neither ALT1 nor ALT2 could be verified from sources; ALT3 is dubious because the age of the bus isn't given; ALT4 is dubious because it's unclear from the sources who actually owned the buses and how old Pineda Holidays was. Mackensen (talk) 01:55, 1 June 2016 (UTC)