Template:Did you know nominations/Julie Schwabe


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Victuallers (talk) 11:09, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Julie Schwabe

 * ... that philanthropist Julie Schwabe asked Dickens to help when her ex-governess's conviction was reduced from murder to cruelty?


 * ALT1: ... that Manchester philanthropist Julie Schwabe died in a school she had founded in Italy?
 * Reviewed: QPQ = Bridget van Kralingen

Created by Victuallers (talk). Self-nominated at 12:02, 11 September 2015 (UTC).


 * Symbol confirmed.svg new enough, long enough, inline citations and closed paragraphs checks. factual and interesting reading. BabbaQ (talk) 15:56, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Suggest using ALT1 hook. Image can be used as well.BabbaQ (talk) 15:56, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Striking both hooks. The original hook implies that Dickens was asked after the conviction was changed to a lesser offense, which is not supported by the article. (It seems more likely that his intervention was requested after the initial conviction and in aid of the appeal that eventually succeeding in reducing the offense, but again the article doesn't say.) And the article clearly states that she died "at the former Collegio Medico", but it's not at all clear that the school was still a going concern, which renders ALT1 problematic as well. Can we please have a new hook, or a reworked version of either or both of the above that is supported in the article? Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * - the article says "and when she was found guilty of causing the death (reduced on appeal to cruelty) she tried unsuccessfully to get the novelist Charles Dickens to intercede" You may think it more likely. You say "It seems more likely that his intervention was requested after the initial conviction"... that's what the article says. As for the school...... the hook doesnt say it was a going concern. If I travel to a school, I started the year after it stopped being a school, and die then I will still die in a school I founded. You may think that this implies that the school was still working when I died but that is just OR. I think you are finding unusual interpretations and then looking for the support. BabbaQ has checked these. You are implying the checking is wrong and I don't think it is. Can you explain the point you are trying to make more fully. Are you sure you are not asking for more than is required? Victuallers (talk) 20:58, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Victuallers, since I cannot check the source, I'm left with what the article says. It is not at all clear from the wording there whether Darwin was asked to intervene after the original conviction but before the appeal, during the appeal, or after the appeal had reduced the crime the ex-governess had been convicted of from murder to cruelty. Reading the article, I would have said it was after the original conviction but before the appeal, since the latter is mentioned only as an aside; the hook, however, unambiguously says the request came after the appeal had succeeded. Perhaps you can clarify the wording in the article. As for the school, now that I have read more sources (including one presumably written at Schwabe's direction in 1888, and also this one from 1875), ALT1 appears to be conflating two things: the fact that Schwabe's school was founded in Naples, and that she had leased the "ex-Collegio Medico" (per both of the sources I just linked to) for her school. All the article says is that she died at the ex-Collegio Medico. All we know from the rest of the article is that this is where she had founded her school (called the "International Model Educational Institution" in the second of those sources). The article doesn't say that she died at this Institution, it says she died at the former Collegio Medico, which might have still housed the school she founded, but might not have. Absent further detail in the article, the hook is making a claim that isn't supported in the article, because the text gives no information about how long the school lasted at that location. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:26, 4 October 2015 (UTC)