Template:Did you know nominations/Killing Us Softly

Killing Us Softly

 * ... that the Killing Us Softly documentary series, focusing on images of women in advertising, had four installments from 1979 to 2010?
 * Reviewed: Chechen-Russian conflict

Created by Piotrus (talk). Self nominated at 06:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC).

Long and new enough, but I think that the article could use an infobox with an appropriate image. Javier Espinoza (talk) 03:52, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg The chief hook fact, that there have been four installments in the series, is not supported by any sources at the end of the sentence it appears in, and not fully supported by either of the sources at the end of the following sentence (FN1 and FN5). In fact, there's a distinct lack of clarity as to whether this is an actual series, or a single documentary with four editions/versions, much like a textbook that gets periodic revisions. The hook, article, and sources need to agree. The article could also use a bit of copyediting (some incomplete and confusing sentences), and I'd suggest that the positive and negative reviews/commentary be in the same paragraph. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:32, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


 * @User:Jaespinoza, User:BlueMoonset: It is a single documentary with four editions, but I cannot find any good reference for that. I do think that WP:BLUESKY is relevant here. But if you disagree, I am open to an alt hook, if anyone would like to propose it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:36, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm completely puzzled as to why WP:BLUESKY is being invoked here, as the situation isn't anything like as straightforward or obvious. And to be clear, my problem is not merely with the hook, but with the article itself, which fails to make clear that this is not, in fact, a series, but a documentary that has been updated three times (and apparently retitled for each new version) since it was first released. But even then, the sources aren't congruent with the article. For example, the article lists "Killing Us Softly 4, 2010". There are only two sources for this article that date after 2010: FN3, Embodied Resistance, and FN8, Rethinking Popular Culture, are both from 2011. The former gives the date for Killing Us Softly 4 as 1999, a far cry from 2010. The latter calls Killing Us Softly 4: Advertising's Images of Women a "classic work" that had been "shown ... in past years". (FN8 fails to mention the actual author of the article/chapter, Bakari Chavanu; Marshall and Sensoy should be credited as editors for the volume.) Do you have a source that gives a 2010 initial release date of the fourth version? The 2007 Morgan source (FN1) lists three versions as 1979, 1987 and 2000 (but no 1999). BlueMoonset (talk) 18:33, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Regarding FN8 I have no idea where "Bakari Chavanu" comes from; this name is clearly not mentioned at . I've tried to clear up the dates and names; as you can see from GBook search for "Killing Us Softly 3" 1999 / 2000, sources are very much confused about the publication date; and there's the related "Beyond Killing Us Softly" 2000 doc, adding to the confusion. If you are still unhappy about the hook, here's is an ALT1: --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:14, 28 October 2013 (UTC)


 * ... that the Killing Us Softly documentary series, focusing on images of women in advertising, had several installments from 1979 to 2010?

or just ALT 2:


 * ... that the Killing Us Softly documentary focuses on images of women in advertising, gender stereotypes and sexual objectification?


 * I've struck the original hook and ALT1: the use of "series" is questionable by its normal definition; indeed, I've just gone through and revised the article to deal with that and make a number of other fixes. One is to the ref that was FN8 when I wrote my previous comment (and became FN10 after your subsequent edits), the Marshall and Sensoy volume: if you look at the book, you'll see it's edited by them; further, if you look at the cited page in Rethinking Popular Culture and Media, page 26, you'll see that it's part of an chapter or article that starts on page 24 of the book, "Seventeen, Self-Image, and Stereotypes", written by Bakari Chavanu. As I was trying to say, a proper citation would credit Chavanu with authoring the chapter you're quoting from, which is included in this anthology edited by Marshall and Sensoy. Needless to say, the citation has been updated so it now does the right thing. ALT2 is clearly supported by the article; I'll return back tomorrow when I'll have time to check the sources supporting the hook to be sure they also support it; I've run out of time for tonight. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:06, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for helping out; I think I improperly used the word series here - an occupational hazard with me being an ESL :> --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:34, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg The ALT2 is now good to go, thanks to user BlueMoonset for his review. Javier Espinoza (talk) 19:19, 28 October 2013 (UTC)