Template:Did you know nominations/London Buses route N213


 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page.  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Allen3 talk 09:23, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Insufficient progress toward resolving outstanding issues

London Buses route N213

 * ... that recent extensions of London Buses route N213 have been unsatisfactory?

Created by Launchballer (talk), CourtneyBonnick (talk). Nominated by Launchballer (talk) at 13:01, 28 February 2014 (UTC).


 * I spotted a song I liked being nominated today, so I reviewed it.-- Laun  chba  ller  13:11, 28 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg enough, moved into main space on the day of nomination. Long enough, over 2000 characters. Article is neutral and free of close paraphrasing. QPQ has been done. The hook is quite subjective and not really a fact, and what's more is that the article doesn't seem to support it. The hook mentions "extensions" but the article only mentions that it was discontinued in 2009 and then there was a moan about its absence in 2013. From what I can tell, a bus service numbered 154 was then brought in for late-night journeys. So, it looks like the N213 service hasn't been extended at all. Is that the right idea, or am I missing something? C679 21:18, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The N213 is pretty much the 213 extended via the 154. I believe I mentioned this in the article. There have been moans about its discontinuation since 2009 to the point at which a Facebook group generated 5,000 likes opposing the discontinuation. I have amended the article regarding why it's unsatisfactory; perhaps
 * ALT1: ... that recent extensions of London Buses route N213 have been considered unsatisfactory?
 * is better?-- Laun  chba  ller  21:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)


 * In all honesty the whole article seems to be about the provision of bus services to Wallington and Sutton Green. The sentence "Upon being questioned by Caroline Pidgeon, Boris Johnson revealed that the bus at that time ran from 4:24am in the morning, with a final bus running from West Croydon bus station at 00:30am.[7]" refers to the 154 service and not N213; the rest of the article also appears to be about night transport in the area in general - now provided via service 154 and not "connected" to N213 at all. The route has been inactive for nearly five years. C679 05:31, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The N213 is connected to the 154 - it is the night bus equivalent. This article deals with the N213 and its replacements; the 213 was extended to become a 24 hour service, but I wasn't sure if this was a reliable source or not therefore I didn't include it, and the 154 is slowly being extended as well.-- Laun  chba  ller  19:49, 6 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol delete vote.svg I'm going to say no, because the referencing doesn't support a connection with the article title. If the material cited has discussed this bus service, etc., it may be best to create an article for the 154 service and write a hook for that, there. It looks like the only verifiable fact specifically about the N213 is that it was cancelled on 4 July 2009, and I don't think that is "likely to draw the readers in to wanting to read the article". Sorry. C679 16:14, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Rejigged to deal with the 154 and a speedy tag has been placed on London Buses route 154 to make room for it.-- Laun  chba  ller  17:34, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * This changeover is going to require a lot of work, and I have to wonder whether it's worth it. As noted at WP:BUSOUTCOMES on the AfD results about similar topics, Articles about individual bus routes are rarely notable, recommendations to merge into a suitable list article are common. I don't see anything about 154 to indicate that it's any more notable than N213, except that it's a current route and N213 has been defunct for several years. Given the inherent lack of notability for bus routes, it does not seem to be a fruitful topic area. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:02, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Would it help if I was to point out that London Buses route K5 made DYK with 6 references, whereas this has 16?-- Laun  chba  ller  19:40, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


 * No, I don't think so. It just makes me wonder why K5 was considered notable with so much less going for it. Right now, though, I don't see any significant work having been done on this article (and a great deal is needed, as I noted above); there's no real justification for having the N213 in there at all except perhaps as a side note (and certainly not as the initial focus); since this is supposedly about the 154, the history should be about the 154. BlueMoonset (talk) 07:02, 12 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol delete vote.svg It's been a week since the "rejig", and the article is still almost entirely about N213, as is this nomination, which only offers hooks about the N213. Closing as unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:17, 15 March 2014 (UTC)