Template:Did you know nominations/Luke fon Fabre


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by BlueMoonset (talk) 16:28, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Closing; appears to have been abandoned over a year and a half ago with significant issues outstanding, and fell off DYK nominations list

Luke fon Fabre

 * ... that the protagonist of the role-playing game Tales of the Abyss, Luke fon Fabre, was created to be initially disliked by players as across the game he would become a more mature character?

Created/expanded by Tintor2 (talk). Self nominated at 22:14, 14 May 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol possible vote.svg New enough (for 14 May) and long enough. Hook checks out online with citation #1. Self-nom has achieved just two DYKs (according to user page) so QPQ not needed. No problems with disambig links or with external links. At 193 characters, the hook is within length requirements. Issues: (1) In my opinion there is copyvio from citation #1: "into someone likeable that the rest of the party would look at and come to say", and "someone who was very selfish and annoying in the beginning." (Note I have checked online citations #1-#7 only for copyvio - many more left to check). (2) I am not comfortable with the large number of long quotations of in-copyright material in offline citations #8 - #22. Conclusion: Due to issues 1 and 2 this is a no in my opinion, unless the creator/expander can resolve the issues and check the rest of the online citations for copyvio ready for a second review. --Storye book (talk) 16:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * To make sure this nom is treated fairly, I would like a second opinion on the long quotes in citations #8 - #22, please. Ping User:BlueMoonset? --Storye book (talk) 16:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree that some are excessive. There's no blanket rule on number of words, but rather you should use no more non-free material than is needed to support what is being said - for example, FN11 could be shortened to "I'll use hyperresonance to destroy the miasma in the town. Then, instead of returning to Kimlasca, I'll follow Master Van to Daath" (as the rest of the quote does not clearly support the article text). Nikkimaria (talk) 04:03, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Reworded the creation section and trimmed the references.Tintor2 (talk) 15:49, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Thank you, Tintor2. All issues resolved. Good to go. --Storye book (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg I came to promote this, and found close paraphrasing in the first paragraph of Creation and design. I fixed them, but am wondering if the text in succeeding paragraphs was copied directly from the source (some of the words in the next paragraph look like they might have been.) Yoninah (talk) 19:33, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * @ Yoninah. What you found, if you'll kindly check the struck-through lines above and match it with article history, is the nominator's good-faith attempts to re-write duplicated material. So I'm not expecting to find any more. I think that the second paragraph in the creation and design section is inelegantly worded, so I'd be surprised if it were a duplication of a source. I have done some more spot checks from the second column of the Reference section, but found no copyvio or close paraphrasing. I had already checked all the ext. links in the first Refs column.--Storye book (talk) 21:40, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Good to go (again). --Storye book (talk) 21:40, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg OK. But the hook isn't so intelligible. Perhaps this tweak:
 * ALT1: ... that Luke fon Fabre, the protagonist of the role-playing game Tales of the Abyss, starts out as an unlikable character that might turn off many players? Yoninah (talk) 21:48, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Review of ALT1: This hook is a re-phrased version of the original hook, with the ending omitted, so it checks out with the same source. Its problem is neutrality. The makers and fans of the game might object to the hook on the grounds that it presents the game-experience as unpleasing and negative, because people like a hero they can root for and an avatar they can identify with positively. OK, the original hook is not punchy and hooky, but it is clear enough that the protagonist starts out unlikeable but ends up mature and OK, i.e. it's neutral. If you want to do a re-write then please could you kindly give us one with the whole content but fewer words. E.g. "blah is at first unlikeable, then matures into a respectable hero." --Storye book (talk) 22:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * ALT2: ... that Luke fon Fabre, the protagonist of the role-playing game Tales of the Abyss, was created as an initially unlikable character who matures into someone everyone likes? Yoninah (talk) 22:53, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Review of ALT2: Thank you, Yoninah. This hook is a re-phrased version of the original hook, so it checks out with the same source. Accepted. --Storye book (talk) 23:52, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Good to go (yet again). --Storye book (talk) 23:52, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Hang on, it appears that some of the content here has been copied from other Wikipedia articles without proper attribution. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:13, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * @ Nikkimaria. Could you please give us full details of this, otherwise we can't deal with it. Thank you. --Storye book (talk) 06:32, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Large chunks copied from Tales of the Abyss, suggest asking the author if there are any other sources. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:31, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Nikkimaria. Well if this is to be fully dealt with, we'll have to clarify all of it. Please forgive me, people, for taking up so much space by pasting it all below. --Storye book (talk) 15:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Duplicated passages in both Luke fon Fabre and Tales of the Abyss
"i heard a strange song a fonic hymn he called it what's that it made me sleepy and then this weird girl came in and attacked van i tried to stop her but all of a sudden some incredible power appeared between us and we were thrown into a valley neither of us were familiar with namco tales studio tales of the abyss namco bandai games""master van says that humanity is addicted to yulia's score that a powerful medicine a replica world is the only way to remedy that addiction but i know from my own existence that the score has gone off track the future can be changed mankind can choose to discard the score and after a terrific battle we succeeded in defeating master van""namco tales studio tales of the abyss namco bandai games when the tartarus reached yulia city asch was there asch said that master is a replica of him is that why they look the same namco tales studio tales of the abyss namco bandai games""pampered life turns upside down when he unwittingly becomes the target of a military religious organization known as the order of lorelei who believe him to be the key to an ancient prophecy"
 * @ Tintor2. If you still want this nom to be promoted to DYK, please would you kindly remove the above passages (currently being used as citations) from the article, because you can't use other WP articles as references. Please replace them with other sources if you can. Thank you for your patience. --Storye book (talk) 15:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, stop. First off, it looks like you used Duplication Detector or some other automated tool to produce that, right? Don't do that. Direct quotes from external sources create false positives, while anything that's been subsequently edited (even slightly) produces false negatives. Second, you're not required to remove the material, it just needs to be attributed properly according to WP:CWW, we need to know if there's any material copied from other articles (or, but hopefully not, external sources), and we need to make sure there's enough original content to meet the DYK criteria. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:16, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * No worries, Nikkimaria, I'll hand this review over to you then. --Storye book (talk) 09:09, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I didn't copy anything. I just referenced the journal section of the video game.Tintor2 (talk) 15:13, 27 June 2014 (UTC)