Template:Did you know nominations/Mandala-brahmana Upanishad


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by  08:57, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Mandala-brahmana Upanishad

 * ... that Mandala-brahmana Upanishad is a Yoga text, that lists one of the Yogi (pictured) virtues as patience and tranquility under all circumstances no matter what.


 * ALT1:... that Mandala-brahmana Upanishad is a Yoga text of Hinduism that suggests that the spiritually liberated person lives like a child.
 * Reviewed: Elizabeth Rebecca Ward

Created by Ms Sarah Welch (talk) and Nvvchar (talk). Nominated by Ms Sarah Welch (talk) at 18:24, 26 February 2016 (UTC).


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Sorry this review has taken us so long - I think it got missed in the list! The article was created on the day it was nominated, it is long enough and is written from a neutral viewpoint. It has a huge amount of references; all cited inline and I cannot find evidence of copyright violations. Hook is within required length and it is sourced within the article (Note: tranquillity can be spelt with 1 or 2 L's). Picture is on Commons appears to be free licensed. A fantastic article, well done Ms Sarah Welch and Nvvchar. ツStacey (talk) 11:40, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg We need to be careful when interpreting primary sources, especially religious texts. The text says "That know of that (highest truth) will conduct himself through the world like a child, a mad man and an evil spirit, behaving like a dull-witted man." I'm surprised you didn't go with a quirky hook, because the following sentence says that the yogi passes little urine and faeces. It would make a change from the usual dull upanishads. I would recommend changing the article and hook to something along the lines of "conduct" and probably use quotation marks. It's probably not a good idea to weigh so much of an article on primary sources.  Jolly   Ω   Janner  04:51, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * How are sources in the article WP:Primary? The original Sanskrit manuscript is WP:Primary, the English sources cited are WP:Secondary (it is a translation + interpretation/explanatory notes, if you read the Hattangadi, Aiyar and Ayyangar sources, this is obvious). The WP:Primary guideline states "Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved". The English sources cited are neither close to the event, nor written by people directly involved. I am surprised you think that this and others are "usual dull Upanishads". They are beautifully composed, spiritually interesting, exciting treasures of human mind, from a distant era. I have reviewed your request that the article be changed, and I have reread the sources. I disagree with you. Of course, you and I can disagree. But I would rather withdraw the DYK nomination, than to make a mockery of these beautiful ideas by highlighting the passing mention of "urine and faeces of a monk who is taking temperate food" in a DYK hook, than to highlight the main message of that chapter. Per WP:DYK, hooks should be neutral and relevant, shouldn't insult living people (who consider the Upanishads as part of their scriptures), shouldn't misstate the content of the text. I don't think what you suggest respects that guideline. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 02:29, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comment Sara. My mistake, it is not a primary source! However, we are still making some kind of interpretation from the source and the article. The source says "The knower of that [] will conduct himself through the world like a child...". Conduct and to live are not quite the same in my mind and would rather use the same term. One could look into the original hook, which I have yet to verify as I find the ALT most interesting.  Jolly  Ω   Janner  03:17, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * ALT2:: ... that Mandala-brahmana Upanishad is a Yoga text of Hinduism that suggests that the spiritually-liberated person's conduct is like a child?
 * I thought "live" was close enough rewording to Ayyangar and Aiyar sources, to avoid WP:Copyvio issues. But I now sense why you might be concerned, and you have a good point because "conduct" and "to live" are not synonymous. I will update the article. Thanks, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 04:16, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg for ALT2. That now seems close enough to the source. I have also given it a light copyedit which you are welcome to revert. I've often witnessed The Rambling Man vent frustration in his edit summaries when italicising these hooks!  Jolly  Ω   Janner  04:32, 28 March 2016 (UTC)