Template:Did you know nominations/Maria Radner


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 13:03, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Maria Radner

 * ... that contralto Maria Radner, who performed Wagner's Wesendonck Lieder at his villa Wahnfried, died in the Germanwings plane crash?
 * Reviewed: Mary Brewster Hazelton

Created by Wuerzele (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 21:51, 25 March 2015 (UTC).


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Article is new enough, long enough, neutral, and well referenced. Hook is verified with inline references. No copyvio detected. QPQ is done (still in progress). Good to go. I've made a small change to the hook to make "Germanwings" visible. -Zanhe (talk) 18:24, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Comments: Her image is fair use. and I found no free image exists (see talk:Maria Radner).
 * A user is questioning Maria Radner's notability (see talk:Maria Radner).
 * If the above can be resolved, I would suggest to qualify the plane crash with the word "tragic", to hook people who dont know about Wesendonck and Wahnfried, like myself before I wrote the page. The word would be a clear pointer (than Gerda maybe? probably? intended) of the analogy between the tragedies she's performed professionally and the ultimate real-life tragedy she and her family experienced. I say this today more so than the day before, since we now know, that the plane crash was no accident, but a purposeful event by a in my opinion tragically tormented soul.--Wuerzele (talk) 18:34, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should use the word "tragic", per WP:EDITORIAL. And notability does not seem to be a concern. Her bio is reported on numerous international sites and she has articles on 11 different wikis. -Zanhe (talk) 18:42, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I would agree that adding 'tragic' on the article page without a source for it would be editorializing, and I'd never do that, but on DYK. Does DYK underlie the same rule? (I thought it's not on the same level as the pages, admitting my complete ignorance about DYK). --Wuerzele (talk) 20:41, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I tried a few highlights in a lead. Perhaps the titles of some of the Lieder Mrs. Wesendonck wrote (the inspiration for Tristan and Isolde) might add for those who don't know them: "The Angel", "Stand still!", "In the Greenhouse", "Sorrows", "Dreams". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * , I have replied to about their concern of Radner being notable. We both know she is very notable, but if you would like to chime in about it, or read my reply to Amakuru, you may free to do so at: Talk:Maria Radner. Cheers.  CookieMonster755   (talk)   20:34, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * , in principle, DYK hooks should present facts that are mentioned in the article. If something is not in the article, then it shouldn't be included in the hook either. And the word is not necessary in any case. Most readers would instantly see the tragedy in the loss of such a promising singer. -Zanhe (talk) 16:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * ALT 1 ...that Maria Radner and Oleg Bryjak's final performance before the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525 was Wagner's Siegfried at the  Gran Teatre del Liceu in Barcelona. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 07:56, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Nice idea. Some thoughts: I don't like the subject in the possessive form, - and we should treat the two the same. She was close to Wagner, so mentioning his place seems more relevant than the Barcelona theatre. I like that the place's name is Wahnfried because it means peace in madness, which seems to fit, sadly. If we mention Siegfried we should link to that work and mention the parts of Erda and Alberich. We don't need links to Wagner and Barcelona, nor a flight number. - After all: I would like to keep a hook for her and run it on her birthday, 7 May. Perhaps DYK is able to make an exception and permit a hook about him even if formally too late and the article too short? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:36, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * How about flipping the clauses around to put more emphasis on her achievement? Alakzi (talk) 14:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * ALT 2 ... that contralto Maria Radner, who died in the Germanwings plane crash, performed Wagner's Wesendonck Lieder at his villa, Wahnfried?
 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT2 is essentially the same as the original hook. Verified. -Zanhe (talk) 07:01, 5 April 2015 (UTC)