Template:Did you know nominations/Marienkirche, Dortmund


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 10:49, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Marienkirche, Dortmund

 * ... that the Marienkirche in Dortmund (interior pictured), which holds two notable Medieval altars, was destroyed during World War II and afterwards rebuilt?


 * Reviewed: Malouma

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 22:16, 30 January 2016 (UTC).


 * Symbol voting keep.svg new enough, long enough, hook looks fine (teeny bit long but within guidelines, plus I copy-edited some of the wording). I guess no more detail about the survival of the altars? I have to AGF on some of the offline sources. The destruction is cited to a Dortmund tourism site but it seems uncontroversial and reliable for that. GTG I'd say. --Errant (chat!) 22:30, 30 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you for looking right away. The destruction is now cited to a different source. "Tourism" is an official site of the city of Dortmund and has the most precise dates about the rebuilding I could find online. There's a lot more in German, but I have a few other topics. The altars (which would deserve there own articles) were taken to Cappenberg before the bombing. - This was filling a red link for a soprano whom I heard there;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:10, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg The image is stunning, but the end of the hook falls flat, IMO. How about changing the caption to "Marienaltar" and writing:
 * ALT1: ... that the Marienkirche in Dortmund houses notable Medieval art such as the Marienaltar (pictured) by Conrad von Soest from 1420, with scenes of the life of Mary? Yoninah (talk) 00:39, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * That is the hook for the altar, article to come, thank you for the wording ;) - We can drop "afterwards rebuilt, because the image shows that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:52, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * If the hook just says it was destroyed, then the image implies that this is what it looked like before it was destroyed. Would you like to reserve the image for your new article about the altar, and write:
 * ALT2: ... that the Marienkirche in Dortmund, Germany, built in the late 12th century and almost completely destroyed during World War II, has been rebuilt and now serves as a concert venue for sacred music? Yoninah (talk) 10:27, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry to disappoint you again, but I think many churches do that, having been destroyed and serve as concert venue, see St. Lamberti, Hildesheim. Also some "also" is missing: it is mainly a parish church. Holding not one but two important altars is something unique. There are plenty of images of the Marienaltar on the commons, no need to hold this one on which you see no details,- it pictures the church. - We can drop the destruction, but unfortunately that's what gets clicked. The image clearly was taken after the war. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:52, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * ALT3: ... that the Swoon of the Virgin (detail pictured) is depicted in Dortmund's Marienkirche?
 * I've added some stuff to the article which verifies this, and it's slightly more catchy. Voceditenore (talk) 15:08, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I saw the additions with delight, but - see above - they would make even more sense in an article about the altar itself, which I would like to see on DYK on 25 March which is this year both Annunciation and Good Friday. You could start it already now, - I have a few other things waiting first. The link to the German article is in the church. Anyway, you get make credit for this, thank you very much! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:23, 10 February 2016 (UTC)#
 * But Gerda, the "Swooning Virgin" is depicted on the, not the Marienaltar, so this hook wouldn't interfere with a future DYK about the Marienaltar. I also have to say that a church having two notable altar pieces is not at all unusual, although perhaps in Germany? In Italy and Spain, it certainly isn't. Voceditenore (talk) 16:03, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, - I should have looked closer. I added the related image to the article and here. Fine with me, - only that it does look like the perfect image for Good Friday. We probably can't hold it that long? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:05, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * There's a close up detail of just the "Swoon" which might be better in the small size. I'm not sure. But if you still don't want the Swooning Virgin in a hook, how about this one? Not nearly as catchy but it's referenced...
 * ALT4: ... that the medieval altar pieces of the now-rebuilt Marienkirche in Dortmund spent World War II in a castle thus saving them from the bombing that destroyed the church?
 * Voceditenore (talk) 17:32, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Nice (and a dear person was baptised in that castle), but I like the swoon better, especially with the close-up image. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:50, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I think you should go for a double hook (Marienkirche and Marienaltar), with the swoon image, for Good Friday, which is 6 weeks away. I believe 6 weeks is the maximum for holding a hook for a special occasion. Yoninah (talk) 19:05, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * No, thanks, I don't like double-hooks. As Voceditenore pointed out, this one with the smaller image can go rightaway (it's a January article), - hook and image are from the Bendswordtaltar, so the other could still go later. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:19, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * So do you want ALT3 or ALT4 for this nomination? Yoninah (talk) 22:50, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * As said above, I prefer ALT3 with the close-up. Probably needs a review, and I am not passionate about it, the other is also nice, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

I've cleaned up the template so only the image you want to use is identifiable by the prep builder. Here is a new review: New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced. As 99% of refs are in German, unable to check for close paraphrasing, but fortuitously, the ALT3 hook is online in English, so it's verified and cited inline. The image is PD and appears in the article. QPQ done. ALT3 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 23:29, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Save for use on MainPage on Good Friday, March 25th? --PFHLai (talk) 13:09, 13 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, if we can, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:15, 13 February 2016 (UTC)