Template:Did you know nominations/Mark Midei

Mark Midei
(
 * ... that in one day of work as a cardiologist, Mark Midei performed thirty $11,000 procedures?
 * Comment: This is my fourth DYK nom but I still plan on reviewing another.

Created by Jesanj (talk). Self nom at 12:42, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This article is about a living person whose notability is premised on an investigation into his alleged practice of engaging in unnecessary procedures. Our DYK rules state: "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals ... should be avoided."  In this case, the hook and article focus on the negative aspects attached to Midei's alleged overuse of the stent procedure.  The article may or may not be fine for Wikipedia in general, but the article and hook do not belong on the main page. Also, the sourcing for the 30 stent day is to a public interest blog and to an off-line source.  Because of the focus on very negative aspects of a living person, we need to pass on this one.  Sorry.  Cbl62 (talk) 16:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look. The fact he placed 30 stents is a day is in the first sentence of the New York Times article. I'll put that citation behind the statement as well. How can I modify the article so that there isn't a POV violation (undue on negative aspects)? I've thought about including a short list of publications he had in the medical literature. He's had a number of papers he co-authored get over 100 citations. Thanks. Jesanj (talk) 17:14, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I've added the three of his most-cited works along with a book chapter to a new section "Selected publications". And I disagree with you when you say the hook focuses on a negative aspect. I have seen no source allege any of the 30 he placed in that August 2008 day were unnecessary. The article also mentions how a variety of sources described him as incredibly talented at his job. This could also be interpreted as a sign of his surgical skill, as I'm sure it was a function of that. Jesanj (talk) 17:38, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I will take another look later today or tomorrow after you're done editing/improving the article. (I see that you've been working at it a fair bit since my initial comments.)  However, the DYK issue is not just with the article.  Under our DYK rules, we avoid hooks that focus on negative aspects of living individuals.  As for your interpreting the 30 procedures as a sign of surgical skill, I assume you are saying that tongue in cheek.  The sources that refer to the 30-stent day cite as evidence of his engaging in unnecessary procedures, not as evidence of his surgical skill.  And if you intended the hook to constitute praise of Midei's surgical skill, then why did you include the part about it being an "$11,000" procedure?  Based on the findings last month by the Maryland Medical Board (here) in revoking his license, Midei appears to be a bad guy.  But DYK is not the place to be marching living people out in the electronic version of a "public square" for humiliation (even if deserved) in front of a large Main Page audience.  Cbl62 (talk) 18:28, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for considering taking a second look. I also plan to make more edits to the article later today. But seriously, I wasn't being tongue and cheek. I honestly think you'd have to know your stuff in order to be able to do that. And sources describe him as talented. Why include the $11,000? Because in the big picture of U.S. health care, I think it is an interesting fact that a physician's work in the U.S. can contribute to over $300,000 worth of medical services in a day. I didn't know that before writing this article. I could also propose other hooks. Thanks again. Jesanj (talk) 18:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * After adding a selected publications section, which highlights his contributions to the field of cardiology, I have made these edits. I included Midei's specific legal allegations against the hospital and I've also incorporated his POV into the lead. (Unfortunately for this discussion, I also found out my vague wording of him leaving the hospital was inaccurate, so I changed that to be verifiable that he was barred from practicing.) I still don't like how it has been insinuated I'm motivated by bad faith here, but I do appreciate peer review and making sure and double-sure hooks are ready for the Main page. I've made edits I think improve the article because of it. But please also consider I started the article overutilization which "refers to medical services that are provided with a higher volume or cost than is appropriate" (my emphasis). I also have an edit history on IPAB, this one and this other draft article, and others that relate to the pricing of health care in the United States, a topic of interest of mine. Jesanj (talk) 13:02, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * ALT1. ... that Mark Midei, a cardiologist described as expert in the "delicate business of threading tiny stent screens into heart vessels," performed thirty $11,000 procedures in one day? Jesanj (talk) 13:43, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg This is a difficult one IMO.  Given the very controversial subject, and the fact that he is a living person, I was initially hesitant about approving this at all.  However, Jesanj's edits have added balance to the article.  And the alt hook does not suffer from the same negative slant that I perceived in the original.  One lingering concern is the $11,000 price tag.  There is no source verifying that the 30 stent procedures performed on the day in question had that price tag.  Accordingly, the price tag needs to have more solid referencing, or it needs to go.  Once that is resolved, I will approve this for the alt hook only.  Given the concerns expressed, I will take no offense if the persons promoting this to prep and then to queue provide a second opinion, and, indeed, encourage them to do so. Cbl62 (talk) 22:17, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, sourcing the cost of the thirty stents gets complicated as the $11,000 comes from dividing two other figures anyhow. I looked and I can't find anything better so lets remove the $. I mentioned on talk that the WSJ calls it a $20,000 procedure. But that probably considers the cost of an entire patient who may receive multiple stents. So here are a couple other ALTs. Thanks.
 * ALT2. ... that Mark Midei, a cardiologist described as expert in the "delicate business of threading tiny stent screens into heart vessels," inserted thirty cardiac stents in one day?
 * ALT3. ... that Mark Midei, a cardiologist described as expert in the "delicate business of threading tiny stent screens into heart vessels," inserted thirty cardiac stents in one day, possibly setting a record for Abbott Laboratories? Jesanj (talk) 19:52, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Approve as to the alt2 hook. I am striking the original and the first alt per discussion above.  Alt 3 has 225 characters, above the 200 character limit and strikes me as trying to cram TMI into a DYK hook.  Shorter is better in this case. Cbl62 (talk) 00:49, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Approval removed in view of active afd discussion. Cbl62 (talk) 04:52, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

RETURNED FROM PREP FOR MORE DISCUSSION There is consensus to re-open the discussion per WP:BLP concerns. I took it out of Prep 3 and returned it here for discussion. Sharktopus talk 00:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This article is now at AfD due to BLP concerns, specifically WP:BLP1E concerns.  Sharktopus talk 23:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)