Template:Did you know nominations/Middle Hill Battery

Middle Hill Battery, Middle Hill, Gibraltar

 * ... that, during the eighteenth century, guards posted at Middle Hill Battery on Middle Hill, Gibraltar to prevent desertion sometimes deserted themselves?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Pritilata Waddedar and Template:Did you know nominations/Army of Me (Christina Aguilera song) by Prioryman on behalf of Anne in her absence.

Created/expanded by ACP2011 (talk). Self nom at 22:15, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Per the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Did you know/GibraltarPediA Options, Gibraltar-related articles are temporarily being reviewed by two individuals. In addition to the regular DYK criteria, at least one reviewer should also indicate whether they perceive any conflict of interest or promotional concerns about the article under review.IP addresses and Victuallers are not allowed to do the reviews.


 * Review 1:
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Both these articles are new enough and long enough. I see no evidence of close paraphrasing or inclusion of promotional material. The hook is appropriately referenced. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:44, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg QPQ is still required, one for each of the two articles nominated. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:00, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Restoring tick on Review 1 now that QPQ has been satisfied. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:59, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Review 2:
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Both articles are fine; I've done the QPQs on Anne's behalf. The hook is interesting and supported, and there are no concerns with the content of the articles. Prioryman (talk) 11:21, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

The source gives one example of one guard attempting to desert, but failing to do so. "The 4th, a soldier of the 58th attempted to desert from Middle-Hill guard, but was dashed to pieces in his descent" Not "guards", not "sometimes". Fram (talk) 13:33, 9 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Fram, from what I can see the source actually supports the hook and article quite strongly on the cited page: "but to prevent desertions by the soldiers of the garrison, who have frequently found means by strong ropes to lower themselves down this precipice ... guards are constantly kept" is the relevant passage, and it goes on to specifically mention a "Middle-Hill Guard". If it also gives an unsuccessful desertion example elsewhere, that does not negate the above statement. Or is there something about the quoted passages that fail to meet DYK requirements in some other way I'm not seeing? BlueMoonset (talk) 13:50, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Guards were posted to prevent desertion, that isn't under dispute. But the hook finishes "sometimes deserted themselves?", while only one example of a failed attempt is given. The hook gives the appearance that this happened at least a few times, not just once (that we know of). Fram (talk) 13:56, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Thanks. I can't imagine it isn't true, but there isn't support for more than the one. There ought to be a way to reword it, something like "were known to attempt to desert too"? Would that work? Another possibility is to make the hook all about this guard—"at least one guard" and "died attempting to desert"? (Would including "himself" at the end be necessary?) I have modified that one sentence in the article to better reflect the source. If you and Prioryman are okay with either of these hook modification suggestions, I'm happy to write it up as an official ALT for approval. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:21, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The second possibility seems to be the better one, as far as I am concerned. Fram (talk) 14:39, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest the following, which seems to me to follow the source more closely. Prioryman (talk) 22:53, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ALT1 ... that during the eighteenth century, guards had to be posted at Middle Hill Battery on Middle Hill, Gibraltar to prevent soldiers from deserting?
 * Fram, are you okay with this one? It's simpler than either of my suggestions, yet still interesting. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:55, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Fine by me, it seems to match the sources and have the least ambiguity. Fram (talk) 08:45, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT1 hook approved and all issues in this thread addressed; article is again ready for promotion. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:36, 10 January 2013 (UTC)