Template:Did you know nominations/Murder of María José Reyes and Juan Duarte

Murder of María José Reyes and Juan Duarte

 * ... that in July 2012, a 39-year-old seller of antiquities beheaded two people in the Chilean town of Lolol?
 * Comment: The article is not yet completed, but should be by the time it is eventually put on the main page.
 * Reviewed: Battle of Czarne Diego Grez (talk) 22:50, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Created/expanded by Diego Grez (talk). Self nom at 15:01, 19 July 2012 (UTC)




 * Symbol confirmed.svg QPQ done. Hook properly formatted.  Article fully supported by inline citations.
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Article does not treat hooked fact as fact.    Article has tag saying major expansion.  Second beheading is missing from body.  The BLP issues make me really uncomfortable here given that it isn't apparent this person has been found guilty or apparently confessed.  I feel it has too many problems to go until these issues are resolved and a better alt hook is proposed. --LauraHale (talk) 01:44, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I intend to finish writing the article tomorrow, it's been a busy week! Re. the BLP issues, the guy was shot dead anyway. Diego Grez (talk) 01:52, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I just finished writing the article. Diego Grez (talk) 02:52, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not comfortable enough with BLP issues to take this further. My apologises. : / --LauraHale (talk) 03:17, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think that there could ever be a trial, at least here in Chile, to declare this guy "guilty". The murderer was killed by a policeman, does the BLP policy apply here too? :-S Diego Grez (talk) 03:31, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg Second opinion here... Since the man identified as the murderer is now dead, BLP considerations don't apply to him any longer. However, particularly considering the recency of the murder, DYK needs to be concerned about the feelings of the families and friends of the victims (and the family of the murderer), which means not publishing a sensationalized hook. Here's one possible alternative that seems less like a tabloid headline:
 * ALT1 ... that Chilean authorities conducted a "psychological autopsy" to try to explain why an antiquities dealer killed and decapitated two people in July?
 * Also, before this goes to the main page, the article needs to be restructured to be more like an encyclopedia article and less like a tabloid newspaper story or a "true crime" article. That means, for example, providing an account of the incident in the body of the article before giving biographical details about the victims and perpetrator. I think that Murder of Maria Lauterbach and Murder of Russel Timoshenko are two reasonably good examples of how to structure this kind of article. Be careful not to misrepresent statements found in the sources -- for example, if the source says that Oscar Lopez Rodriguez had half a kilo of marijuana in his house and is reported to have both smoked and sold it (what the Spanish language source seems to say), the Wikipedia article should not state as fact that he was "addicted to marijuana". --Orlady (talk) 04:32, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I corrected most of the issues. I was not really sure whether to put the murder and the victims together in a section or not, but that's it. I like the ALT1 hook. Diego Grez (talk) 19:33, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Orlady, Laura, this article is also a GA nom. I considered quick-failing it and sending it to AfD; it is not clear to me at all how this is even notable in the first place, but since you two have commented on the DYK nomination I'll hold off. In my opinion, this is nothing like Murder of Maria Lauterbach, for instance--it just happened, it reads like news to me, there is no evidence or even suggestion of a lasting impact. Besides, the article needs serious pruning. What do you think? Drmies (talk) 19:31, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It may have occurred recently, but that does not mean it is not notable. One of the most important newspapers in Chile, La Tercera have called it "a case [...] which marked the Chilean police history." The article is full of references coming from the most reliable sources in Chile, what else does it need? Diego Grez (talk) 19:37, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Some enduring importance--that article is from five days ago. Drmies (talk) 22:19, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The case itself is not even one month old, what were you expecting? :-) Diego Grez (talk) 00:42, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's too early to tell if this case will have the kind of enduring importance needed for WP:Notability. It is, however, the kind of unusual murder case that often becomes the basis for a book or movie, which would give it enduring importance. Since there's not going to be a murder trial. there's no chance of it leading to a noteworthy trial or execution, but it's possible it could lead to changes in Chile's mental health policies, which would be another kind of enduring importance. If more bodies of victims turn up, then the case is sure to get long-term notoriety. I don't have a crystal ball. If it turns out that no one is interested in the case 6 months or a year from now, the content can be merged and the title redirected to an article such as Lolol, as has been done for other news-related topics that turned out not to have lasting interest.
 * I thoroughly agree that the article needs serious pruning. It's been reorganized a little, but it still has the overall style of a "true crime" piece, including a large amount of nonencyclopedic detail. --Orlady (talk) 04:24, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked online today for more recent news coverage of these crimes. I didn't find a lot, but I did find an story about problems in mental health treatment in Chile that refers to the Lolol murders in the first paragraph to provide context for the rest of the piece. I also saw a Google search result that appeared to compare the Aurora, Colorado, cinema shooting with this crime in Chile. These references support the notion that these murders are going to remain in the Chilean consciousness for a long time -- giving them significance beyond the immediate news stories.
 * Symbol redirect vote4.png I've reread the article and made a few more edits. The article isn't nearly perfect, but I think it's adequate for DYK purposes. Since I drafted the ALT1 hook, someone else needs to review it. --Orlady (talk) 04:06, 10 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Meets criteria. I don't think this is against BLP at all, as a murder is a murder. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 21:27, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, Lolol should be definitely included as this is where he killed the victims. The original hook is better. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 21:33, 14 August 2012 (UTC)