Template:Did you know nominations/Nancy (1775)

Nancy (1775)

 * ... that in 1776, during the American Revolutionary War, the American brig Nancy (pictured) was the first to fly an American flag in a foreign port, according to her captain's daughter?
 * Reviewed: Sheep farming in Wales

Created by Zeete (talk). Self nominated at 22:04, 29 June 2013 (UTC).


 * Not a review - the hook seems to have broken grammar. Should it be "according to the captain's daughter" or "according to her captain's daughter"? Chris857 (talk) 22:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've fixed it. Zeete (talk) 23:06, 29 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg The hook has three iterations of "American" which is obviously redundant, the date is unnecessary because "Revolutionary War" already dates the hook, and the "according to the captain's daughter" is a ponderous phrase that adds little info and only weakens the hook. Suggested alt:
 * ALT1: ... of the claim that during the Revolutionary War, the brig Nancy (pictured) became the first ship to fly an American flag in a foreign port?


 * Having said that though, it is unclear from the article whether "first" means first ship to raise a US flag in a foreign port, or whether it means first US flag raised in a foreign port, period. So this needs to be clarified too. Gatoclass (talk) 16:38, 5 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The claim from her book was that a crew member was ordered to "hoist the first American stars ever seen in a foreign port". Is this alt clearer? Thanks, Zeete (talk) 19:09, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * changed ALT2 to match article. Zeete (talk) 20:23, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ALT2: ... of the claim that during the Revolutionary War, the captain of the brig Nancy (pictured) raised the first American flag in a foreign port?
 * Let's try to make the article a bit more prominent. How about:
 * ALT3: ... that the captain of the brig Nancy (pictured) was the first to raise the American flag in a foreign port during the Revolutionary War, according to his daughter?
 * This also has the typical DYK first word, "that", and restores the daughter (in place of "claim", which otherwise would be placed earlier and reduce the hook's effectiveness). If "claim" is deemed necessary (or the daughter hugely undesirable), then "was the first" could change to "is claimed to have been the first", while getting rid of the daughter at the end. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:58, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Consider alt4, keeps clear that it was first flag, keeps it short, and claim is then clear from the article itself. Zeete (talk) 17:35, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ALT4: ... that the captain of the brig Nancy (pictured) raised the first American flag in a foreign port during the Revolutionary War?


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Now that hook is settled (earlier versions struck), nomination needs a full review. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:44, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * How is the hook settled? It's a claim, not an established fact, so I don't see how ALT4 can be acceptable. Gatoclass (talk) 07:38, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * ALT4 might work if "is said to have raised" was substituted for "raised" I guess. Gatoclass (talk) 07:51, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Consider alt5 with the claim. Thanks, Zeete (talk) 10:01, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ALT5: ... that the captain of the brig Nancy (pictured) is said to have raised the first American flag in a foreign port, during the Revolutionary War?


 * IMO, "said" is probably sufficient, I don't think we need to cast too heavy a degree of doubt on this claim, unless you think otherwise (since you have seen the refs and I have not). Gatoclass (talk) 12:11, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed, I've changed alt5 as suggested. Thanks, Zeete (talk) 12:54, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Time for a full review of the nomination, with ALT5 as the hook. (Struck ALT4 for clarity.) BlueMoonset (talk) 16:59, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg The article contains a header which states "First American flag in foreign port", but the claim is neither repeated in main body text nor sourced. Gatoclass (talk) 17:27, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've added a direct quote "the first American stars ever seen in a foreign port" from the primary Montgomery source. The Mendenhall source has "the first American flag ever seen in a foreign port". Thanks, Zeete (talk) 18:33, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Okay, I'll accept that. Verified. Gatoclass (talk) 11:16, 10 July 2013 (UTC)