Template:Did you know nominations/Norfolk County Council

Misrepresentation of sources

Norfolk County Council

 * ... that Norfolk County Council has been represented in the House of Commons since May 2010?
 * ALT1:... that Norfolk County Council has been represented in the House of Commons since May 2010, after not being represented there before?
 * Reviewed: See User:Thine Antique Pen/DYK/Reviewed

Created/expanded by Thine Antique Pen (talk). Self nom at 08:27, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Is this article eligible? Except for minor additions (and logo) it is a word-for-word copy of Norfolk. Attribution is given in edit summary, but it really isn't new or expanded significantly.


 * Per: DYK rules: (1) b) Former redirects, stubs, and other articles in which the prose portion has been expanded fivefold or more within the past five days are also acceptable as "new" articles. The content with which the article has been expanded must be new content, not text copied from other articles."   Wikipelli  Talk   11:37, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, give me 2 days to re-write. I got my timing wrong, as I thought I made this earlier. :/ --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 12:07, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Rewritten and added more references backing up the old dead references. --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 12:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Not sure if it is currently acceptable, I personally would approve it as an expansion, but rules are rules.. Wikipelli may offer some opinion..♦ Dr. Blofeld  13:10, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * More work done..Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 14:28, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No opinion, just my question about whether a copied article qualifies as 'new'. Now it's a rewrite of the Norfolk section plus some school (?) stuff. I'll leave it to more experienced DYK reviewers. I don't know if it qualifies or not, either.   Wikipelli  Talk   14:38, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Still got a 'ton to do. --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 14:41, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 14:49, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The hook doesn't make any sense. It's not the county council that's represented in Parliament, it's the people who live in the relevant constituencies within the area governed by the county council who are represented - and they have had MPs in Parliament for rather more than two years, I think you'll find... BencherliteTalk 22:52, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg agree. County Councils are not represented in parliament. Secretlondon (talk) 01:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * New hooks below. --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 06:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ALT2: ... that in 1902, Norfolk County Council consisted solely of landowners?
 * ALT3: ... that the Norfolk County Council are in charge of all 411 public schools in Norfolk?


 * Symbol possible vote.svg Not ALT3 as this confuses public schools which in the UK are elite private schools. Never use public school to mean state school when considering the UK. And we need to consider academies, free schools and church schools none of which are under local government control. I can't imagine that Norfolk doesn't have any academies/free schools especially if it is a Tory stronghold. Also Norfolk County Council doesn't control health care - that would have been the NHS primary care trust. Health has never been a local gov function as far as I know. Secretlondon (talk) 11:33, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ALT2 is better but did County Councils exist in 1902? (yes apparently it was formed in 1889. The article needs that kind of info together with what a County_Council actually does. I think it's confusing the area of Norfolk with the administrative unit called the county council. Secretlondon (talk) 11:43, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Sadly, all hooks suggested so far are incorrect, but that is not the worst of it. Norfolk County Council is not "represented" in parliament; the term "411 public schools" no doubt means "411 county schools", of which (as Secretlondon says) many are aleady academies beyond the control of the county council; that "in 1902" the council "consisted solely of landowners" is simply not what L. A. Blue's The relation of the governor to the organization of executive power in the states says at p. 42, which is "A member... testifies that 'our county council consists almost entirely of landowners and large farmers'"... so some were neither, and indeed most of the "large farmers" in Norfolk at that time were tenants. The year 1902 is the date of publication of Blue's book, but what he quotes is drawn from a report said to be dated 1899, so even the date "1902" is bungled. The fact that the article misrepresents a printed source so badly gives me the unhappy feeling that the writer has done no more than glance at it. That is a greater worry than the incorrectness of the hooks. Moonraker (talk) 06:29, 28 May 2012 (UTC)