Template:Did you know nominations/Olivia Pope (2nd nomination)


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 02:41, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Olivia Pope

 * ... that Olivia Pope is the only main protagonist role played by an African-American woman on American network television since 1974?

Improved to Good Article status by TonyTheTiger (talk). Nominated by MJ94 (talk) at 20:22, 4 July 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol possible vote.svg Good article status granted on 7/2/14. Article is long enough. The article contains extensive in-line citations. The hook is short enough and would be interesting enough as well if it were true and supported by the source.  However, the cited source doesn't say what the hook says.  Instead, it says "she is only the second black woman in almost 40 years to lead a network television drama." (That is, it omits all genres other than comedy and says that there was at least one other African-American to play the lead in a drama.)  Moreover, the hook isn't factually accurate, since the show "Get Christie Love" starring Teresa Graves aired new episodes until at least April 1975.  See episodes here. Cbl62 (talk) 14:58, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Other examples that prove the hook to be false include (1) 227 starring Marla Gibbs (on NBC til 1990), (2) A Different World starring Lisa Bonet (on NBC til 1993), (3) Fame starring Debbie Allen (on NBC til 1987), (4) Moesha starring Brandy (aired on UPN network 1996-2001), (5) Girlfriends starring Tracee Ellis Ross (aired on UPN and CW networks 2000-2008), and (6) Soul Food starring Nicole Ari Parker (aired 2000-2004 on Showtime). Cbl62 (talk) 15:18, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * FWIW, the original DYK nomination on the article can be found at Template:Did you know nominations/Olivia Pope. Cbl62 (talk) 20:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)


 * thanks for nominating this. I'll try to help this nomination out.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:54, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It looks like both refs 5 and 6 point to this as the first dramatic AA main protagonist role since 1974. I only watched one of the shows above and don't know whether the others were comedy or drama. Is there a challenge to the facts in the source or just my misrepresentation of it in the article that made it here in hook form.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:57, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The challenge is two-fold: (1) the sources don't support the hook, and (2) the hook fact is false. Cbl62 (talk) 21:56, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Soul Food was not a network drama. It was cable. The main challenge is Fame, I guess. The other objections seem to all be comedies.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:05, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether Fame was an ensemble show or whether Allen was the central character.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:07, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * (ALT1) ... that Olivia Pope is the only main protagonist role played by an African-American woman on an American network television drama since 1974? --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:10, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * (ALT2) ... that when the Obama administration needed a spokesman for its Affordable Care Act, it had Jennifer Hudson spoof Olivia Pope?
 * (ALT3) ... that Olivia Pope was spoofed by Jennifer Hudson when the Obama administration needed a spokesman for its Affordable Care Act?
 * I quite the latter two facts (especially ALT3 – I think it reads better) as they seem to be more clear cut than my original suggestion or ALT3. MJ94 (talk) 21:42, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg alt 1 is somewhat better since it is limited to "dramas"; the original hook wasn't so limited. But it's clear that Get Christie Love (as noted above) aired until the spring of 1975, which is enough to render alt 1 false. Further, Fame is described as a mixture of drama and music, and its main protagonist was an African-American woman, Debbie Allen.  So, alt 1 really doesn't work either.  I'll take a look at alts 2 and 3 as soon as time permits. Cbl62 (talk) 22:01, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that your objection is WP:OR. I never watched Fame and with all due respect to Ms. Allen, I have no reason to believe it was not an ensemble cast. I think we should go with WP:TRUTH on the cited fact here.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:26, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No pressure, but did you have a chance to look over the nomination? Thanks, MJ94 (talk) 07:32, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Should have time to look over the other alts today. Cbl62 (talk) 15:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg The alt 2 and 3 hooks check out as short enough, interesting enough, an supported by this source from Yahoo news. For reasons discussed above, the original and alt 1 hooks, as written, do not work and have been stricken.  Also, spot-checks revealed no problems with plagiarism, copyright, unduly close paraphrasing. Cbl62 (talk) 01:49, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Cbl62. What is the next step in promoting one of the alts (I prefer alt 3, personally) to the Main Page as a DYK hook? MJ94 (talk) 18:58, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's been approved. So just be patient. Cbl62 (talk) 00:37, 17 July 2014 (UTC)