Template:Did you know nominations/Park Crescent West ice well


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 03:27, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Park Crescent West ice well

 * ... that in the early 19th century Norwegian ice was sold from an ice well in Westminster for use in taverns and fishmongers? "The structure was later leased for use as a commercial ice-well from around the 1820s and expanded by William Leftwich (1770-1843), an ice merchant and confectioner, with wholesale outlets in Fleet Street, London and Kingston-upon-Thames. Leftwich sold ice to taverns, coffeehouses and clubs all over London and supplied the growing confectionary and ice cream trade, popular from the early C19." (Historic England)
 * ALT1:... that the Park Crescent West ice well is egg-shaped? "The egg-shaped cavern" (The Guardian)
 * ALT2:... that Harley Street doctors may have used ice from the Park Crescent West ice well to numb skin prior to operations? "these were then shipped by horse and cart to restaurants and private addresses and also, potentially, to some of the medical establishments nearby ... We know they used to use ice to numb things, for doing dentistry, and we have Harley Street and Wimpole Street near here ... there is a good chance they were getting clean ice from here." (The Guardian)
 * Reviewed: to follow

Moved to mainspace by Dumelow (talk). Self-nominated at 14:50, 5 February 2019 (UTC).


 * Template:Did you know nominations/Viktoria Orsi Toth


 * Symbol question.svg Long enough (new article is >5-fold expansion of section in ice house), submitted in time; QPQ done; inline sourced to reliable sources; apparently neutral.
 * Hooks: concise, interesting, generally check out with sources. One minor quibble is that Norwegian ice detail presumably comes from listing/Guardian, but the sentence cites UCL blog (Ref 3) which doesn't seem to mention it? Has there been a mix-up, as Ref 3 doesn't seem to cover anything directly related to the ice well?
 * Alt 2 -- personally I find this the most interesting, but it's speculative; can it be recast as Danny Harrison/Museum of London Archeology/similar has suggested that... If this won't fit in the hook, perhaps it could be explicitly put in the article.
 * Earwig found a couple of minor similarities in phrases between the text & the listing


 * listing: "Leftwich sold ice to taverns, coffeehouses and clubs all over London and supplied the growing confectionary and ice cream trade, popular from the early C19."
 * article: "Leftwich sold ice to taverns, coffee houses, clubs, fishmongers and pastry chefs and also sold his own ice-based confectionary."


 * listing: "Rarity: as a rare example of a large, well-preserved urban ice-well;"
 * article: "it was noted to be a rare example of a large and well-preserved urban ice well." This could just be recast as a quotation.


 * Also with Guardian: "...under one of London’s most prestigious addresses,"
 * article: "The site, just south of Regent's Park, is now one of London's most prestigious addresses."
 * Espresso Addict (talk) 04:38, 19 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Espresso Addict, thanks for your comprehensive review. I seem to have used the wrong link for the UCL source.  It should have been this one, the link I originally provided is a truncated version of the same.  I've fixed this in the article.  I don't think I can put the medical useage explicitly in the article as the source only states "and also, potentially, to some of the medical establishments nearby, according to Danny Harrison, a senior archaeologist at Mola".  I've changed the article to read "Archaeologists suggest that..." provided an alt hook below.  I don't think there is much scope for rewording the first paraphrasing issue you quote; it is just a simple statement of fact, though I am open to suggestions.  I've stuck quotation marks around the second sentence fragment listed.  I changed the last one to "most desirable areas".  let me know what you think - Dumelow (talk) 12:00, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * ALT3:... that archaeologists suggest that ice from the Park Crescent West ice well may have been used to numb the skin of patients undergoing surgery in nearby Harley Street?


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Hi Dumelow -- I like Alt3; the main hook & Alt1 are also approved. Thanks for fixing the link. I might well be oversensitive to such minor close paraphrasing issues; I tend to err on the side of rephrasing even if it's just reordering alphabetically/chronologically . I've tried recasting the sentence; see what you think. Espresso Addict (talk) 12:26, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks, your rewording in the article works fine for me - Dumelow (talk) 12:33, 20 February 2019 (UTC)