Template:Did you know nominations/Pavement light


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:57, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Pavement light

 * ... that the purple jewels set into old sidewalks are vault lights; they light a room inside the hollow sidewalk? Source:
 * Reviewed: Benty Grange helmet, nematophagous fungus
 * Comment: I have a very suitable image promised by the photographer.

Created/expanded by HLHJ (talk). Self-nominated at 02:55, 7 October 2017 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg Interesting article, on good sources, no copyvio obvious. - Sorry for reducing an image to be compatible with mobile devices ;) - I am afraid I'll request more work on images: they should not "sandwich" text between them. Please consider to keep only the most essential ones with the text, dropping others or placing them in the gallery. References: please don't leave any "bare urls" but provide title, publisher, author if known, date if known, accessdate for web, other info for books. I recommend cite templates. Look at any of my articles for examples. - The hook: sorry I don't understand "the purple jewels set into old sidewalks" nor "a room inside the hollow sidewalk". Can you word something as one question, without a semi-colon? - Enough much for now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Belated thanks, Gerda Arendt. I've improved the article along the lines you suggested, but it still needs more work. Here are two alternate images; I favour the first one. "Jewels" is apparently one of the terms for the glass bits; I used it because I thought it evocative. Here's another possible hook, which manages to integrate European and American usage:
 * ALT1: ... that the purple jewels in old sidewalks are pavement lights for daylighting a vault inside?  Source:  — Preceding unsigned comment added by HLHJ (talk • contribs) 14:42, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * ALT2: ... that the purple jewels in old sidewalks are pavement lights, which use prisms to bend light through a hollow sidewalk, daylighting the basement? Source:  HLHJ (talk) 16:36, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Let me understand if I understand, we take the second image and could say
 * ALT4: ... that the purple "jewels" (pictured) in old sidewalks are pavement lights for daylighting a vault inside?
 * I think we need a different caption, though, mentioning "purple". - The references and images are much improved, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:37, 14 October 2017 (UTC)


 * How about an image caption that says "Light from inside the hollow sidewalk shines up through purple sidewalk prisms?" Prism lighting is also a new article, so it might be nice to work it in. Some installations honestly bend the light 90 degrees, to the near-horizontal, and send it right under the building, to light the whole basement; I"ll add images to the article gallery. I'm unsure about whether "vault" will convey the right impression to everyone, there are some dialect differences here. Comments welcome.
 * ALT5: ... that the purple "jewels" (pictured) in old sidewalks are pavement lights, which bend light through a hollow sidewalk, to daylight the basement?
 * Ian Macky helped a lot with improving the article, and Graeme Bartlett came and fixed my borked references. Not to mention your help, Gerda. Thank you all. I still have some work to do, though. HLHJ (talk) 04:47, 20 October 2017 (UTC)


 * ALT6: ... that the purple "jewels" in old sidewalks (pictured) are pavement lights which bend light through the hollow sidewalk into the adjacent basement?
 * I've fixed up the article some more, especially by adding some information about the hook. How's this for a hook and caption? HLHJ (talk) 02:36, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I'll look after sleep, but know already that caption and hook should not say the same ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:14, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * How about simpler:
 * ALT7: ... that the purple "jewels" (pictured) in old sidewalks are pavement lights which bend light into the basement below?
 * ... or did I misunderstand. Before I can approve this or another, two simple rules must be met: One citation per paragraph, best at the end, - and no tags. I don't understand the "worldwide view" tag, - it seems to be not a worldwide thing, no? - For the referencing, you can do a few things: combine short paragraphs, have sourced information at the end, drop less important facts? You can actually move whole sections to a sandbox until after DYK, it's long enough ;) - Please ping when you are done. - I removed the duplicate image, - I think this one next to ALT6 is best in small size, it's licensed, and I simplified its caption. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:02, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
 * ALT7 seems good to me. I suppose it might make people think that they are light pipes, but the brevity is good. I agree with you entirely on the image. Vault lights are fairly worldwide; the Glassian websites has some from Pretoria, and it's really common in Europe, just less well-documented. I'll make a moderate effort and remove the "worldwide" tag; if there aren't citeable sources, that's that. I've added some more citations, and will do the rest of the paragraphs soon and then ping you. Are you sure it's long enough? I haven't actually checked the wordcount...:) HLHJ (talk) 04:28, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Can we close this? See what's not referenced, and reference or drop (until after DYK). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:23, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Realistically, this article is not going to progress at DYK unless its problems are addressed. It has a citation needed tag, a number of uncited paragraphs and a worldwide view banner tag. If these are dealt with soon, the nomination can be fully reviewed, but otherwise I suggest the nomination be closed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:32, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Nothing new, - I wanted to know from the author if they can deal with the problems, such as drastically shortening for DYK (and adding again afterwards). There's plenty of interesting referenced material. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:46, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, apologies for the delay, I've not been around. I'll work on it now. HLHJ (talk) 19:02, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Gerda Arendt, Cwmhiraeth, I've belatedly fixed the problems you mentioned. HLHJ (talk) 20:10, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Reversing the closure as the outstanding issues are being fixed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:26, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Didn't know that was doable. A warning: I've been having problems with a new user adding spam links to this and related articles. I have just reverted and warned them, and the edits were only up for two hours. Hopefully this will be the end of it. HLHJ (talk) 20:46, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I am willing to review, but am on vacation, on erratic connections, and off to hiking right now, - please be patient, should be later today or tomorrow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:46, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Thank you for impressive improvements! If you want to do more, sort refs numerically, and avoid a "bare url". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:41, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Gerda! Northamerica1000 fixed my bare URLs for me, so I can't claim credit. You are right that I should really sort the refs, they are unwieldy. I've added a bit more information, too, referenced. HLHJ (talk) 01:01, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg I have returned this one from the queue for reasons explained at T:TDYK. Gatoclass (talk) 18:07, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Copied from Talk:Did_you_know:

I'm sorry, I failed to notice an inaccuracy in the caption of Template:Did_you_know/Queue/3 (now the next in the queue). The photo may not show prisms. They may be prism-less lenses. It would be easy to tell if one looked at them from underneath... My original caption was "Light shines up from inside the hollow sidewalk", and I avoided specifying prism/lens and reflection/refraction in the hook. Other possible accurate captions: And I think the "which" in the hook is nonrestrictive, so it needs a comma just before it. Apologies for not noticing this sooner. HLHJ (talk) 15:29, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Purple sidewalk "jewels" (term rarely used by sources, but generic)
 * Purple sidewalk skylight
 * Walking over a sidewalk skylight
 * Walking over a hollow sidewalk
 * Skylight for a hollow sidewalk


 * , the hook currently says "jewels" but the word doesn't appear in the article itself. Gatoclass (talk) 15:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You're right, Gatoclass, I found a source and mentioned it. The scare quotes may not be necessary, either, but they're just glass. HLHJ (talk) 16:20, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * , does the image now show prisms, or is that an issue that still needs to be addressed? Gatoclass (talk) 16:30, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Gatoclass, the image may or may not show prisms. I have no way to tell; the photographer (not me) did not have access to the underside. The image definitely shows a pavement light, with purple-solarized glass set into a sidewalk to let sunlight into the space below, so it definitely illustrates the article. I have no good substitute for it, so I'd suggest modifying the text, even just prims->jewels. And I've just noticed that the term "hollow sidewalk" isn't mentioned and cited in the article, either, I will fix that now. HLHJ (talk) 16:50, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Look, I'm sorry about this, but I think I'm going to have to pull the hook for now as it has too many outstanding issues. I am also concerned about the image licence. I think the issues can be ironed out but it's better done before the hook goes to the main page, otherwise it might end up getting pulled then. Gatoclass (talk) 16:56, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Gatoclass, the image license is definitely OK. The photographer had previously posted it on her blog, which is full of her own photos, but she then also uploaded it to Commons. I contacted her through her blog and she even knows that it's up for DYK.
 * The only outstanding issues are the missing comma in the hook (trivial) and the use of the word "prisms" in the image caption (possibly inaccurate).
 * I've sourced the terms "jewels" and "hollow sidewalk" in the article. Please let me know if there's anything else you want me to do. I have no objection to you pulling it if that's the easiest way to fix the problem. HLHJ (talk) 17:17, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


 * , I think you should get an OTRS ticket if you have gotten permission from the author, otherwise it's unverified. Gatoclass (talk) 17:23, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Gatoclass, the author uploaded it to Commons personally, as her own work. OTRS has a backlog of 70 days. The image here was cropped by me from her original, for impact at a small size. HLHJ (talk) 17:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

End of copying.

ALT8: ... that the purple "jewels" (pictured) in old sidewalks are pavement lights, which bend light into the basement below?
 * I have added the comma and replaced "prisms" with "jewels", as minimal changes.
 * Gerda Arendt and Cwmhiraeth, any mods you want to make are welcome. "Sidewalk jewels of solarized glass" would also make it plain that "jewels" is not being used in its usual sense here.HLHJ (talk) 21:17, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * *"Sidewalk inset with solarized glass"
 * *"Hollow sidewalk inset with glass"
 * *"A vault-lit hollow sidewalk"
 * *"A pavement-lit hollow sidewalk"
 * *"Walking over a vault-lit hollow sidewalk"
 * HLHJ (talk) 21:31, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

OK, you're going to be really annoyed with me now, but I've just had a close look at the uncropped image, and based on the ridges you can see in the bottom right, and the tripling of the point light sources below, I'm satisfied that these are sidewalk prisms, of the "multi" style, which means that the photographer is probably just stepping perpendicular to the run of the road. This is also quite probable given that the photo was taken in Vancouver (where you'd expect this sort of prism). So the original caption would be fine. I'm sorry for creating all this fuss over a comma. HLHJ (talk) 22:19, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

ALT9: ... that the purple "jewels" (pictured) in old sidewalks are pavement lights, which bend daylight into the basement below? Suggest this to make it clear it is not artificial light. HLHJ (talk) 01:17, 23 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT9 preferred. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:13, 28 November 2017 (UTC)