Template:Did you know nominations/Pop out cake


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:00, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Pop out cake

 * ... that an early predecessor of the pop out cake was a pie from which a live dwarf emerged for Charles I of England in 1626?



Created by TonyTheTiger (talk). Self-nominated at 13:11, 19 April 2016 (UTC).


 * Reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/7 Espantos (1st of 7 QPQs)--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:19, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * N.B.: If Featured article candidates/Emily Ratajkowski/archive5 is unsuccessful, I was hoping that the image or video of Emily Ratajkowski in this nomination might be considered for the main page for her 25th birthday on June 7.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:04, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg I am surprised this one hasn't been reviewed yet (or created before) since it immediately caught my attention. It was "new" and long enough when nominated and appears to be properly sourced, but there are many tags that need to be dealt with. Can the issues be addressed? Surtsicna (talk) 11:36, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * , I don't see the "many tags". I only see In popular culture. At Talk:Pop out cake, you can see that and I have been going back and forth regarding the trivia section. Basically, he wants it removed immediately and I interpret WP:MISC as suggesting that trivia sections should be viewed as temporary information holders that should be worked into the prose. My belief is that a trivia section is allowed to remain in an article for a time in hopes that someone will find a way to beef up individual items to be sufficient prose elements. I feel that this is suppose to give an article some period of time at least months. The purpose of  in fact is to give people time to notice the information at risk. WP:DYK is the highest profile exposure that this article will receive. Hopefully, some editors will notice the tag and take action to beef up individual items of trivia. Thus, I think the article should go to the main page with the tag on it.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:28, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I see. There are two more (inline) tags in the Background section, however. Surtsicna (talk) 19:34, 22 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The purpose of the tag is not at all "to give people time to notice the information at risk", it's to flag a pile of unencyclopedic trivia. This particular gag has been used in probably at least 1,000 films and TV episodes and other media, and WP:NOT policy is clear that we should not be dumping random examples in there endlessly. If a week still isn't long enough for you to rework that material into an encyclopedic narrative of notable and well-sourced material (sourced not as to "it happened in this movie, too, the 397th example I can find", but sourceable as to why the appearance is significant to an encyclopedia readership in any way), then it should come out.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  08:21, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I have been travelling. I am in Memphis helping my mother who is preparing to move. We have got her attic cleaned out now. Getting back to the subject at hand. The subject of this article may have 1000s of pop culture references, however, only a few seem to rise to the proper level of notability to be mentioned in WP:RS (or on plot summaries on WP for that matter). The few that are currently in the article are not just random examples, but rather a select few that have RSs. The main tag that is present is a tag that does not mean to remove content upon sight although the content is suppose to be temporary. I think it is suppose to call attention to content that needs more attention. The purpose of DYK is to avail well-formed content to readers who are willing to pay attention to newly developing content.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:57, 4 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't understand the big fuss with where tagging the article. Is there a reason to believe that this is restricted to certain regions of the world.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:12, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Can someone look at this soon.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:51, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I doubt anyone much will want to review this while it has the tag on the "In popular culture" section. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:39, 28 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The video clip and image are not free and should be removed. The issue is awaiting attention from OTRS (see discussion; paragraph starting "Confirming here").
 * Awaiting an OTRS decision or a decision at Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:2013 GQ Türkiye photo shoot.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:28, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * That apart, there are sourcing problems in the current version and with the hook. The hook is sourced to todayIfoundout.com, which isn't an RS but is used six times in the article. That leaves most of the background section unsourced. The Book of the Dead needs a page number. Groomstand.com is not an RS. The Daily Star is not an RS. The DC Comics Encyclopedia is a copy of Wikipedia articles published by PediaPress.


 * The history of "surprise pies," which contained animals such as birds and frogs, should be developed a little and based on RS. The article doesn't mention the nursery rhyme. The practice progressed to human beings being hidden in pies, including Jeffrey Hudson, the subject of the hook. There are lots of reliable sources for Hudson, including David Piper, Lord Minimus: A Heroic Comedy  (1955), and Nick Page, Lord Minimus: The Extraordinary Life of Britain's Smallest Man (2002). There is also an essay about him by Thomas Postlewait in The Oxford Handbook of Dance and Theater (2015), which gives the date of the pie banquet as 5 November 1626. Postlewait uses the term dwarf, but I'm not sure we should.
 * , it would be appreciated if you could introduce your improved sources to the text with whatever detail you feel is appropriate.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:28, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * , please respond.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:37, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * "Pop-out cake" needs a hyphen. The "in popular culture" section should probably be removed or developed. SarahSV (talk) 15:15, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Adding appropriate icon based on SarahSV's review. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:29, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
 * As I have stated elsewhere, policies regarding galleries say that they should be temporary, but not that they should be wiped away immediately. We hope that others will notice them and develop them. The main page is place that they could get noticed. There is no place to get this page any more of a chance to have that content noticed than on the main page.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:28, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I have removed the image templates from this nomination since the image files have been deleted from Commons. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:03, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment I've added several sources that support the hook. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 10:35, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment The article and sourcing have been expanded to address the concerns expressed above. Are we GTG? 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 14:18, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The "In popular culture" section still has the template header and also the "citation needed" template at the end of the lead paragraph. Until these are taken care of, I don't see how this is ready for promotion. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:14, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Removed the offending section and the templates. Article is still long enough without that section. Are we good to go now, BlueMoonset? 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 17:40, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Everything is now in prose form with WP:ICs from WP:RSs.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:10, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Reviewer needed to check the revised article now that the templates have been addressed. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:39, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Article new enough when submitted, long enough, and free of any copyvios that I can find. I checked many of the sources, and found no serious issues. QPQ is complete. Hook meets the relevant guidelines (I'm a little hesitant about "live dwarf," though, because its language used more with animals. Doesn't the "emerged" part of it suggest that the person was alive? Maybe we could just remove one word?). AGF on the offline source for the date. Regards, Vanamonde93 (talk) 04:39, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

"live" was redundant. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎</b>) 12:36, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
 * ALT 1 ... that an early predecessor of the pop out cake was a pie from which a dwarf emerged for Charles I of England in 1626?
 * ALT 2 ... that an early predecessor of the pop out cake was a pie featuring the "queen's dwarf" Jeffrey Hudson who emerged in a suit of armor? <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 13:12, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Vanamonde93 Do ALT 1 and ALT 2 satisfy your concerns? <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 01:03, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>: ALT1 addresses my concerns just fine Symbol voting keep.svg, so I have struck the original hook. ALT2 is actually a little more interesting; but if you wanted to use that instead, you would need to copy over the information referring to Hudson as the "Queen's dwarf." Regards, Vanamonde93 (talk) 05:31, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Added text and reference re Alt 2 "Queen's Dwarf". Alt 2 is 132 characters.  TonyTheTiger, which hook do you prefer? <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:59, 2 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment Lets go with ALT 1, since Queen's dwarf is not a subject mentioned in the article (and is a little off topic for the article).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:21, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Queen's dwarf is both mentioned and referenced in the article.
 * But it's your TonyTheTiger's nomination and I defer to your judgment.
 * Vanamonde93 are we GTG? <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:26, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, ALT1 is Symbol voting keep.svg GTG. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:24, 3 July 2016 (UTC)