Template:Did you know nominations/Public Vault at the Congressional Cemetery

Public Vault at the Congressional Cemetery

 * ... that First Lady Dolley Madison and Senator John C. Calhoun spent three weeks together in the Public Vault (pictured) at public expense?
 * Comment: for Halloween (October 31). New article expanded 5x from old section of Congressional Cemetery
 * Reviewed Jack Whicher nomination for QPQ

Created/expanded by Smallbones (talk). Self nominated at 14:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svgbones, this is delicious--thanks. Passed on all counts. But I have two questions for you. Can you make the article state explicitly that Madison and Calhoun where in it together? Just a phrase will do--I cobbled the hook verification together from two different claims. And isn't there a way to get the cocktail bar in the hook? They spent time together in a public vault that later was a cocktail bar, or some low-brow thing like that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmies (talk • contribs) 19:27, 22 April 2013
 * Symbol delete vote.svg Although this is an interesting article, according to DYKcheck this "has not been expanded 5x since it was created." I will have to decline this nomination for that reason.  —♦♦ AMBER  (ЯʘCK)  11:57, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Huh? Did you look at the article history?  It's a new article, not an expansion, and it's definitely past the minimum.  Nyttend (talk) 01:22, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, this is my fault for ignoring this for such a long time - I can only plead illness, and being distracted with several other things. The new article now has 6093 characters with spaces (just in the main body) - it does look tight (especially if you have a different measurement system), but I'd say I made a 5x expansion with 500 characters extra. This calculation might be confusing if you just look at the original section now - I updated it and correct it (very briefly) after I wrote the new article.
 * I don't know how to use DYK check but can count otherwise. The article was created anew on April 13, 2013 from a section of Congressional Cemetery.  On April 13 that section had 1097 characters with spaces.  It was never copied verbatim to the new article, but was pretty similar.


 * I should address Drmies questions as well. I will place the 2 parts of the hook right next to each other.  Both are verified by the same offline source which explicitly gives the dates and the exact location (the Public Vault). The two death dates and, at least Calhoun's move out date are very well known in several sources. What this source adds is "same vault". Strangely enough the source does not mention specifically that they were in there together.  I don't think that this is OR however, more like 1+1=2 which is allowed.  Same time and same place (in this universe) means that they were there together.

I am concerned about spicing this up a bit too much for 2 reasons: 1) OR and 2) good taste on the main page. Something in me would love to say that his coffin was on top of hers (there the slightest hint that this might be true), but it fails on both counts.

Don't worry if I messed this up. I might shoot for 2 more for Halloween. Latrobe Cenotaphs, also from the Congressional Cemetery - designed by America's first great architect. The ultimate tombstone article. And Harriet Cole (medical specimen) - still working on good taste for the main page ;-)

But maybe I could shoot for 3 - one on each shift!

All the best. Smallbones( smalltalk ) 03:22, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I will explain my reasoning for declining this. This article started out as an offspring of Congressional Cemetery. The content which was copied to the new page counted 199 prose characters. That's the base for this calculation. With the fivefold expansion criterium, we now know that this article needs at least 995 prose characters to be able to succeed. The current article, however, only has 972 prose characters. Regrettably, this is too short as of yet. —♦♦ AMBER  (ЯʘCK)  07:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg I'll explain my reasoning for passing this on. When Smallbones copied some content on April 13, he did so from this version of Congressional Cemetery, last revised 23 March. What he copied was a 1098 character paragraph (I use the javascriptkit Cut & Paste Character count) and added content immediately: you can't compare his first version of Public Vault with his later version, since much of that content in the first version wasn't there in Congressional Cemetery. The article now is at some 6200 characters: plenty of expansion therefore. I also accept Smallbones's math and regret that his taste is so much better than mine, and that his respect for US government is so much greater than mine. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 13:58, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I will accept Drmies' math. I did however strike this nominator's request to use this for Halloween. In order for this to serve as a Halloween DYK, it needs to be submitted to earlier than six weeks before the event. In the case of Halloween, that's September 19. We will just have to put up this DYK in the upcoming days, rather than on the international trick or treat day. —♦♦ AMBER  (ЯʘCK)  20:26, 2 May 2013 (UTC)