Template:Did you know nominations/Quod scripsi, scripsi


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Victuallers (talk) 16:41, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Quod scripsi, scripsi

 * ... that Pontius Pilate said Quod scripsi, scripsi in reply to Jewish chief priests objecting to his wording of the sign that described Jesus as King of the Jews and hung above Jesus at his crucifixion?
 * Reviewed: Batman: Arkham Knight
 * Comment: For Good Friday

Created by The C of E (talk). Self nominated at 15:21, 18 March 2014 (UTC).




 * Start reviewing. Hafspajen (talk) 17:50, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Currently 1671 characters of readable prose; new enough from re-direct; inline citations to every paragraph; and neutral. I would only like to see the hook re-worded/condensed slightly for clarity. Hafspajen (talk) 21:21, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Alt1 ... that Pontius Pilate said Quod scripsi, scripsi in reply to Jewish chief priest objecting to the sign that indicated Jesus as King of the Jews and hung above him at his crucifixion?  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 10:53, 19 March 2014 (UTC)


 * 'Bless you, the firs part is lovely, now can we make of the sign that described Jesus as King of the Jews and hung above him at his crucifixion just a little more - condensed - like a telegram? like ... pointing out Jesus as a King ..or mentioning Jesus as a King .. or indicate Jesus as the  King - ..or or indicate  Jesus as the  King of the Jews.... testifying.. wittnessing that.. ? Hafspajen (talk) 11:23, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, good, nice. Hafspajen (talk) 11:36, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
 * What about switching the wording about a bit more? See my suggestion for ALT2 below.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  11:39, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
 * ALT2 ... that Quod scripsi, scripsi was Pontius Pilate's reply to Jewish priests who objected to his description of Jesus as King of the Jews?
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Currently 1659  characters of readable prose; new enough from re-direct; inline citations to every paragraph; and neutral. The ALT2 hook is 133 characters, correctly formatted and covered by ref number 2 in the first paragraph of the History section. I have not found any copy vio or close paraphrasing and a QPQ has been done.Hook Alt "2". Hafspajen (talk) 11:44, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Would he have spoken Latin? Probably not. Especially in talking with Jewish priests, he would have spoken Greek. And the New Testament was written in Greek. So where did the Latin come from? In fact, the most usual way of expressing it would be in English:
 * ALT3 ... that What I have written, I have written was Pontius Pilate's reply to Jewish priests who objected to his description of Jesus as King of the Jews?
 * StAnselm (talk) 20:10, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think that is necessary (neither is overriding the green tick). He was Roman so he would have spoken Latin, he certainly wouldn't have spoken English so there is no sense in putting it in English.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 20:14, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, you need a reliable source for the claim that he spoke Latin. I can find several that say he spoke Greek. I think it does over-ride the green tick, since the hook is unsourced. I can't find it in either Brown or Longland. Actually, I'm not sure how this was passed. StAnselm (talk) 20:29, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Just because he COULD speak greek doesn't mean he did all the time. And it is sourced, source 1 has it under the signatures, Brown is intended to show he said it in response to their protestations, longland has it on page 1.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 20:37, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Longland does not have it - she just reproduces the Vulgate text. Source 1 doesn't have it either - it is just explaining the inscription on that particular cross. It doesn't say anything about what Pilate actually said, or in what language. And it's all very well to say that just because he could speak Greek, he didn't necessarily do so then - one could equally say that just because he could speak Latin, he doesn't mean he did so at this point. But the references I provided are saying that Pilate spoke Greek to the Jews at this point in time. StAnselm (talk) 21:08, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * But Anselm, this sentence is from the Vulgata. Vulgata is seriously Latin. The Latin version of the Bible, and this is a citation from Vulgata...... Hafspajen (talk) 20:39, 25 March 2014 (UTC).
 * So I would be happy with
 * ALT4 ... that according to the Vulgate translation of the New Testament, Pontius Pilate said Quod scripsi, scripsi to Jewish priests who objected to his description of Jesus as King of the Jews?
 * which is still only 177 characters. StAnselm (talk) 21:17, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: The hook still needs context (that this is in the New Testament) and wikilinks - I added those in ALT4. StAnselm (talk) 21:18, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with links or the new one (though i'd prefer Pilate's full name and have edited it accordingly).  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 21:20, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * That's good. If Hafspajen is happy then we'll be good to go. Glad we could work this out. StAnselm (talk) 21:22, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * OK, Anselm, put that back, will you, when you are ready. I really have something important University deadline please. Hafspajen (talk) 21:28, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT4 is approved. StAnselm (talk) 21:52, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

The earliest Christians were Jews, Greeks and all of them were Roman citizens in the ancient world. They usually talked both Latin and Greek, the Latin was the Old Roman language, and Greek was the educated peoples language. There are also a number of Roman and Greek names that are now considered Christian names as Laurentius, Sylvia, Victor,or Paul as the the apostle "Paulus" (Latinized). This happened because in the early Christian period, it was the custom in the hellenized Jewish families to give their daughters the Latin name Junia, Priscilla, Claudia and the boys Greek names, such as Stefanos, Nicodemus or Philip. Since he was Roman, he could very well said that in Latin. Many people talked Latin and wrote Greek. Weird but it has to do with the cultural levels, the Romans thought the Greeks were clever and educated. Romans were mostly warriors, not thinkers. No own culture there. Hafspajen (talk) 20:24, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Although Latin is presented by Vergil as a unifying source of identity, bilingualism in Greek played a foundational role in the Roman literary tradition. Romans who received an elite education studied Greek as a literary language, and most men of the governing classes could speak Greek. The desultor litterarum or "literary acrobat" was one who had the ability to leap back and forth between the two languages, which was characteristic of the cultural milieu known as the Second Sophistic. Native Greek speakers of the intellectual elite were in turn capable of practicing literary criticism of Latin texts.
 * Latin-Greek bilingualism



The everyday interpenetration of the two languages is indicated by bilingual inscriptions, which sometimes even switch back and forth between Greek and Latin. The epitaph of a Greek-speaking soldier, for instance, might be written primarily in Greek, with his rank and unit in the Roman army expressed in Latin.

In the Eastern empire, laws and official documents were regularly translated into Greek from Latin. Both languages were in active use by government officials and the Church during the 5th century.
 * I don't know if this to any help. Hafspajen (talk) 21:09, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Currently 1659  characters of readable prose; new enough from re-direct; inline citations to every paragraph; and neutral. Hook the ALT4, see above.  I have not found any copy vio or close paraphrasing and a QPQ has been done.Hook Alt "4". Hafspajen (talk) 11:44, 19 March 2014 (UTC)