Template:Did you know nominations/R. Durtnell & Sons


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:06, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

R. Durtnell & Sons

 * ... that after Poundsbridge Manor (pictured) had been bombed in World War II, the firm that repaired the house was the same one that had originally built it back in 1593?
 * ALT1:... that R. Durtnell & Sons, founded in 1591, is "the third oldest company in the UK still in operation"?
 * Reviewed: Cameron Rahles-Rahbula
 * Comment: The hook is to a a secondary topic in the main article. Poundsbridge Manor is new a redirect to this article. ALT1 is, I think, not so good but links to the article title.

Created by Thincat (talk). Self nominated at 14:50, 27 April 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Article is new enough and long enough. Spot checks show no plagiarism or copyright issues although similar in places to this. The picture is suitably licenced. The first hook is OK and supported by the same source. ALT1 is contentious as the article gives other sources which argue with the third oldest claim therefore I would not use this one. The extensive use of notes within the article detracts from the text where some of the information could be included and gives some duplication with the main text. You could include this source from English Heritage (rather than the unofficial British Listed Buildings) and I might use "Picture House" rather than "Poundsbridge Manor" as this is what most sources use. QPQ done.&mdash; Rod talk 20:49, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your thorough and helpful review. I'll have a look at things in the light of what you say. Thincat (talk) 21:45, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I've done some rewording, used the English Heritage reference (ty) and embedded some notes ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=R._Durtnell_%26_Sons&diff=606246636&oldid=606232075 diff)]. I frankly don't know whether "The Picture House" is more commonly used. It is said to not the formal name (though that doesn't cut any ice at WP:TITLE). I still prefer Poundsbridge Manor which is also widely used. Thincat (talk) 22:44, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg I don't think the original hook is satisfactory because the article is about the firm, R. Durtnell & Sons, not the house. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:20, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * This could be fixed by changing the original hook slightly as follows:
 * ALT2: ... that after Poundsbridge Manor (pictured) was bombed in World War II, the firm that repaired the house, R. Durtnell & Sons, was the same one that had originally built it back in 1593?
 * Or it could be inverted:
 * ALT3: ... that R. Durtnell & Sons, the firm that originally built Poundsbridge Manor (pictured) in 1593, also repaired the house after it was bombed in World War II? —BlueMoonset (talk) 18:43, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Either of those would do. I have not reviewed the nomination as it had already been passed by Rod. Mine was just a passing comment. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:42, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Either ALT2 or ALT3 seem OK to me.&mdash; Rod talk 19:46, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Assuming Thincat has no objection (although Thincat may prefer one of them, or may be fine with either), then all we'll need is a new tick from Rod for this to be ready for promotion. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:59, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose I don't object but I avoided that type of formulation because, as the article says, the firm wasn't called that in 1593 but only since the 19th century. However, it has been the Durtnell's family firm continuously for over 400 years. I was regarding the article as being about both the firm and the house (there is a redirect from Poundsbridge Manor). They are separately notable topics and might both scrape through DYK separately but I thought editorially they were better combined. I originally nominated the redirect and then had to backtrack because I saw someone else being told that nominations of redirects cause bot failures. Thincat (talk) 21:55, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, how about this then? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 04:57, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It's best out of my hands now – and that's how it ought to be. Thincat (talk) 15:07, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ALT4: ... that the Durtnell family firm which originally built Poundsbridge Manor (pictured) in 1593, also repaired the house after it was bombed in World War II?


 * Agree with Thincat's very good point about the firm name, and I think Cwmhiraeth's solution based on it—"Durtnell family firm"—manages a tricky situation without finessing the facts as my ALTs did. Rod, can you please take a look, and give this page a new tick if you agree that ALT5 works (and be sure to note which ALT hook(s) you are approving)? Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:12, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg The article has improved since I first looked at it and definitely meets the DYK criteria. I agree that the wording in ALT 4 overcomes previous issues and is good to go.&mdash; Rod talk 21:20, 3 May 2014 (UTC)