Template:Did you know nominations/Rosa 'Meiclusif'


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:58, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Rosa 'Meiclusif'

 * * ... that Rosa 'Line Renaud' (pictured) is popular because of its superb citrus fragrance?
 * ALT1: ... that Rosa 'Line Renaud' (pictured) won the National Horticultural Society of France's 2009 Grand Prix de la Rose in all categories?
 * ALT2: ... that Rosa 'Line Renaud' (pictured) has strongly fragrant flowers resembling a peony?
 * Reviewed: The Treasure of the City of Ladies.
 * Reviewed: The Treasure of the City of Ladies.

Created by Hekerui (talk). Self nominated at 12:24, 9 May 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol possible vote.svg Length, date verified. Original hook is the best of the 3 options; AGF its foreign language ref. All non-lede pararaphs have refs; all refs appear to be RS. No apparent close-paraphrasing issues. Needs QPQ. Great img, and it's from Commons, but it doesn't appear in the article so either add it to the article, or rmv it from the hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:19, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking this out. I replaced the image in the article. I began to check this for QPQ, but it's not done yet, so I can't put it in. Does that count? Hekerui (talk) 16:18, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Image is sorted out so that's fine. It's not considered a QPQ if you haven't "reviewed" another article (and lead expansion is not a DYK requirement). --Rosiestep (talk) 16:42, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright, check out this. I will continue with the other reviews but this should take care of the QPQ. Hekerui (talk) 12:34, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg GTG. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:16, 12 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Hold on, not so fast--"superb" is a judgment call and maybe should be put in quotes. And "herrlicher Duft" isn't exactly the same as "superb" anyway, is it? Sorry Hekerui. But I didn't so much care for this hook in the first place: I think ALT1 (which I've tweaked a little bit) is much better--a "Grand Prix de la Rose", that's pretty cool to begin with, and stronger than a citrus flavor, IMO. Drmies (talk) 15:57, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with that other hook, too, but regarding "superb": I thought about this, but putting superb in quotes would imply this is the original source content, but I translated from the source so I would kind of lie by implying it's a quote. I considered writing it like it is in the article, but "according to Person X" is not so hooky. Just saying I thought about it, at least a little, and I believed there was some latitude, since, say, the "Three Virtues" also did not really bother a woman ;) Also, my dictionary (dict.tu-chemnitz.de) gave "superb" for "herrlich"; "magnificient" or "splendid" are even more grand than this word, no? Hekerui (talk) 17:37, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * But what could be more than superb? Interesting that you get your translations out of Chemnitz; Karl Marx would have been proud. Hey, I wrote up the article for the SNHF, real quick, and stuck it in the hook--don't know of you noticed. Drmies (talk) 18:27, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe we can do without "superb" then... Hekerui (talk) 20:45, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * As I AGF'ed the original hook, I "assumed" that "superb" was appropriate. We could remove the adjective, but then the hook lacks punch, IMO. No secret that I prefer short hooks, but I'm OK with ALT1, which meets all the requirements -- no AGF necessary. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:07, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg New review for ALT1 and ALT2 to clarify situation as part of the effort to clear DYK nom backlog. New enough (for 7 May) and long enough. No problems with disambig links or with external links. Hook image is free and appears in article. The online links supplied in the citations do not appear to mention the name of this rose, and I find that confusing, but I have found this online page which supports the hooks and part of the article. I think this online page is reliable as it is about a garden, and is not selling the rose. Issues: (1) QPQ needed for this self-nom who has achieved at least 5 DYK banners on archived talkpages. (2) I cannot support the word "superb" in the original hook, because it looks like advertising language (even if it is not) and I think that it is not fair to expect Wikipedia to carry it on the front page where it would certainly be misunderstood as advertising language. Summary: If the nominator Hekerui can supply a QPQ and if ALT1 or ALT2 can be used, then this nom will be good to go.--Storye book (talk) 15:12, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * This rose has lots and lots of marketing names: normally I would use the one for the English speaking world (much like 'Iceberg' and 'Fragrant Cloud' are commonly used), but in this case 'Dee-Lish' is used in the US, 'Forget-Me-Not' is used in Australia, the English page for Meilland uses 'Line Renaud' and there are the older names 'Inclus' and 'Alive', which apparently have fallen out of favor. I decided to use the registration name (Breeder-abbreviation + ending for the individual cultivar) to avoid the confusion, but if you insist we could go with the exhibition name 'Line Renaud'. Should I change it? I did a QPQ for this nomination, The Treasure of the City of Ladies. I also did Cruachan Power Station and John R. Huizenga. The online link where the fragrance is describes as "superb" ("herrlich") used the name "Elbflorenz" for the rose, because it is in German. As discussed above, "was described as superb by " is not so hooky, which is why I shortened it. I haven't read a source that doesn't positively mention the fragrance, but fine. Finally, I used the page you found as a source in the article, maybe you had difficulty reading it because the webcitation links are listed first and they sometimes don't work. Upon reflection I like ALT1 the least. I hope this clears things up. Best regards Hekerui (talk) 18:55, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * To clear up the confusion I went with the name 'Line Renaud'. It's not perfect, but at least it's used on the English website of Meilland while the other English names are not. Hekerui (talk) 19:06, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply, Hekerui. I cannot find your username on the Treasure of the City of Ladies nom template (as linked above), nor on its history tab. However your review is clearly on Template:Did you know nominations/Cruachan Power Station so I can accept that as QPQ; thank you. Also, thank you for your information about the webcitation - I found the url for the same site as the one I found, in the article page source for citation #4. I should add that I was not complaining about the name of the rose/article and that I think you know best how to name it. You are welcome to change it back if you prefer. --Storye book (talk) 19:25, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT1 can now be seen to check out in online source #4, QPQ now found. Nominator is happy with ALT1. Good to go. --Storye book (talk) 19:25, 3 June 2014 (UTC)