Template:Did you know nominations/Scipio Kennedy


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by ceradon ( talk  •  contribs ) 00:51, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Scipio Kennedy

 * ... that Scipio Kennedy was a slave who lived in the grounds of a castle?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Allorapisma

Created by Wikiwayman (talk). Self nominated at 15:27, 30 December 2014 (UTC).


 * Good to Go Fine little article, Newness, length and sources check out. A probe of a few of the main sources reveals no close paraphrasing. Would recommend finding a catchier hook.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:46, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Glad you liked it. Regarding the hook, I sought to contrast the usual preconception of a slave with the general preconception of some nobleman that might live in a castle. Unfortunately, although Scipio may have lived in the castle as a manservant, the sources don't support that, so I'm stuck with having to add the slightly clumsy "the grounds of". DYK admins might have a go before uploading to the front page, they're pretty good at minor tweaks. Wikiwayman (talk) 21:49, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Well I think first of all maybe giving the name of the castle would make it more interesting (and also more suprising since most people probably dont think of Scotland as a place where there was ever African slaves). And perhaps also consider the fact that describing someone as "was a slave" is often considered to be a kind of reduction of a people's identity to the fact of their enslavement. In this case Scipio was in fact also for an important part of his life a free man, so simply labeling him a slave kind of skips an important part of the story. Current historians often use the term "enslaved man" to maintain the basic identity of the enslaved people as people first and foremost, and the condition of slavery as contingent not static. I would suggest a hook like "was an enslaved African man who lived at Culzean Castle in Scotland", or "... continued to live with his former masters on the grounds of Culzean Castle after his manumission". I think saying "at Culzean Castle" is justified even if he only lived on the grounds, (as opposed to "in Culzean Castle" which suggest he lived inside the building).User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:07, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * ALT 1 ... that Scipio Kennedy was an enslaved African who lived at Culzean Castle in Scotland?
 * ALT 2 ... that the Clan Kennedy of Culzean Castle, Scotland, once kept an enslaved African there, called Scipio?


 * I take on board the comments regarding identifying a person as a slave, rather than enslaved. ALT 1 is more or less as per Maunus-1. Maunus-2 suggests including "manumission" but not "slavery" or "enslavement", but I think that makes the hook less accessible to ordinary readers who may not know what manumission is. I prefer ALT 2 as it highlights the distinction in class between the nobility and Scipio. Wikiwayman (talk) 16:04, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Good to go with either of the two ALT hooks. I think ALT hook 1 is best. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 00:55, 24 January 2015 (UTC)